Did Israel ever kill any innocent Palestinians before Hamas was created/started shooting rockets?

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RIGHTS???

exactly, this has been going on since 1947.

Zeno

Several hundred thousand by most estimates. They've actually been at it since the Civil War of the 30's. When the Resistance was dominated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine it was far more clear that the Palestinians are an oppressed colonial-subject people struggling for their survival and their freedom. Today leadership is highly balkanized and that impression has become thereby obscured.

Bosco

Yes,beginning with the "night raids" on Palestinian villages led by their Christian zionist friend/fiend Orde Wingate back in the 30's. They have murdered at least 250,000 including exilic Palestinians in Lebanon.

Ma'akum

Zionists can babble all they want about Hamas but it didn't even exist until 1988 and the persecution of the Palestinians - including repeated massacres - began at least as early as 1948 if not earlier. Hamas is a response to forty years of torture,theft,degradation,humiliation and wholesale murder.

Duane

Well since 2005 they have slaughtered from the air about 2000 Palestinians in Lebanon during the Summer War of 2006 and this winter another 1,500 in the Gaza. The massive aerial genocide style emerged in 1982 with the 71-one day bombing of Beirut. But they have been hell-bent on liquidating the Palestinians since 1919. By the way neither Hezbollah or Hamas existed when the air massacres began. I won't even try to total all the Deir Yassins and Quanas.

As to so-called "terrorists" I think I will simply say: people have a right to defend themselves. The Palestinians are on the brink of complete annihilation while the world looks on doing nothing and virtually no one recognizes their right to exist. At this point they are justified in any and all measures to preserve themselves from total destruction. They are fighting the forces of evil by any standard,religious or otherwise. They have my complete support.

Melodia

There is so much more going on there than us sitting here at our computers can even realize. Searching websites, watching the news or videos will only give us someone else's interpretation of what is going on. Each side is saying "he started it." Like children.

If even one side of this argument, any side, could realize that our purpose as humans is to love each other as much as ourselves this would all come to an end. But their ego's won't allow them to do so.

There are many Palestinian/Arabs living in peace with Israelis everywhere else in the world.

Why can't we start HERE?? NOW??

gorkbarque

One of the root causes of the hatred against the Israelis began way back at the founding of the modern state of Israel. In a 1-year period in 1948-1949 the zionist jews systematically destroyed 435 Arab villages and towns, killing the inhabitants or driving them off their land, then either reducing the towns to rubble or claiming the houses for jewish use. I have a list of these towns and what happened in each case. Of most of them not a trace remains today.

In answer to your question, yes, the Israelis have the blood of thousands upon thousands of innocent Arab men, women, and children on their hands going back 70 years. Hamas is an organization that was built in response to Israeli terror. Surely, people have a right to defend themselves against terror, even against Israeli terror.

Clyde N

Even BEFORE the formation of Israel, MURDEROUS Jewish groups, the Stern Gang and the Irgun(now Likud) in particular-actually labeled as such by the British, were killing innocent Palestinians and telling them to LEAVE OR BE KILLED so they could steal their land to make Israel and they continue doing so in hopes of stealing the West Bank and Gaza strips-one problem-this time the Palestinians are staying and fighting, RETALIATING with home made missiles in southern Israel-GEE the Israelis haven't figured this out yet, and, also why they aren't leaving so Israel can steal what is left of Palestine.Many do not know, Israel refuses to define the southern borders of Israel because they want to annex the West Bank(Arab East Jerusalem is part of the West Bank-incidentally, Israel has attempted to unilaterally annex it, but the UN has vetoed it EVERY time along with non UN countries).Arabs(Ishmael) were there FIRST, Jews(Isaac) SECOND. Arabs have always had the MAJORITY presence. The Jews actually misinterpeted God's "promised land" as ownership instead of JUST residency:

*According to Alexander Scholch, GERMAN JEW AND PROFESSIONAL HISTORIAN, the population of Palestine in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims(Arabs), 11% were Christians and 4% Jews.Scholch, 1985, p. 503.

Palestinian Demographics Link up to 1948
http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

The promise that is the basis of the term "promised land" is contained in Genesis 15:18-21 of the Hebrew Bible:

"On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abrham and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates - the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites."

The verse is said to describe what are known as "Borders of the Land" (Gevulot Ha-aretz). In Jewish tradition these borders define the maximum extent of the land promised to the descendants of Abraham through his son Isaac(2nd born-the Jewish lineage and Ishmael the 1st born and the Arab lineage) and grandson Jacob.Even according to Jewish customs, the oldest son, which is Ishmael, is entitled to the father's inheritance, but because Sarah despised Ishmael, she wanted Isaac to get the inheritance and had Abraham exhile Ishmael. Neither is Ishmael illegitimate but the legal son of his SECOND wife Hagar-Genesis 16: "And Sarah Abraham's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abraham had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abraham to be his WIFE(my emphasis).

The promise is made to Abraham and the descendants of his son Isaac, and Isaac's son Jacob, Abraham's grandson as they are all given promise that their descendants will be given a territory from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates river.No where does it say the Israelis/Jews OWNED the land, nor were they to take it from, and, kill the Palestinians. The Israelis/Jews were given a land ONLY to reside in as many Jews already had among the Palestinians.God clearly states whom the land belongs to-"the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites." Of all these people, only the Palestinians whom are considered Canaanites, are still around. Except for Iran and Israel, Arabs own all of what was Canaan. NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THE JEWS ARE TO STEAL ARAB LAND AND KILL THEM TO DO IT.

Those whom side with Israel-LET THEM STEAL HALF YOUR PROPERTY WHILE THEY KILL YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS-YEAH, JUST AS I THOUGHT-YOU WOULD DO EXACTLY WHAT THE PALESTINIANS ARE DOING AND ISRAEL WOULD CALL YOU TERRORISTS. For Americans, this is the very basis of "the Right to bear arms"-again the Israelies would label you TERRORISTS for defending your lives and property.

The Palestinians want the WEST BANK and GAZA strips, their own land as a Palestinian country. ISRAEL REFUSES-why-because the Israelis want to STEAL(already are-building new settlements and buffer zones and expanding the old- this is the only way they can before annexing to REDUCE/ ELIMINATE(ETHNIC CLEANSING) the Arabs) the land..

One in a Million

The burden of history is part of the problem and some people forgive more easily than others. I do sympathize with their plight under occupation and don't agree with settlements or holing them up in refugee camps, but this could all be solved by the peace process. That requires that both sides support it and Yasser Arafat didn't. He used to go on Palestinian television and praise 'shahadas' (not in the Islamic sense) for their martyrdom.

So he was stupidly encouraging suicide bombings. A lot of Palestinian leaders and activists are stupid extremists who really don't care about getting aid and rights for their people. I am sure that lifting the occupation and encouraging economic and social development would help moderate Palestinian sentiments but there will always be Palestinian terrorists and supporters of the one-state solution and I guess Israel will just have to find some way to manage that through security and self-defense.

The First Dragon

Ever since the founding of Israel in 1948, long before Hamas was started, Palestinian Arabs have been shooting at and bombing Israel. They typically aim at civilian areas rather than confronting the Israeli military. So they started it.
Israel fights back. In war, civilians get killed. But Israel tries its best to avoid it. They actually leaflet and send warnings by cell phone and radio to the areas where they plan to bomb, so that civilians can leave the scene; even though this deprives Israel of the advantage of surprise. But it is the policy of many Palestinians to put defenseless civilians and children in harm's way. They hope that the Israelis will then refrain from bombing their weapons factories and military sites; but if the Israelis do anyway, they can show the bodies of the people they themselves put their, and blame Israel.
Palestinians also are known to greatly exaggerate the number of civilian deaths, and they even make movies which purport to show Palestinian casualties, but the dead have a tendency go get up and walk away.

ak6702

Reporting is to keep the boards rant free and troll free.
Plus hate speech is what it is.I see some on here.I will stand with Israel.They had the land first.Thugs are thugs.There are some great answers on here.With real facts not some made up ones.Do you see any Israelis strapping bomb vest on themselves killing nonmilitary personal.

John E

Major General Doron had ordered the destruction in 2002 of more than 50 Palestinian homes in the Gaza Strip.
A few months later the Katiusha rockets start falling upon the settlers ground.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7251954.stm
So, my dear friend, sometimes I wonder whey the Jews are always trying to be the "victim" when everyone knows that they are the true aggressor in this conflict.
Greetings

Egypt has killed more Gazans than Israel, how come no one complains about them? Even Hamas has killed more Gazans than Israel and Egypt combined.

SARA

Nevo is a racist dictator, and yes Israelis have killed many Palestinian children before Hamas exist.

Valencianista

of course they have, and don't bother discussing with people because they're not willing to listen, they're not open minded, they only trust what their zionist friends and media says, they're brain-washed, Hamas is wrong and especially with using the name of religion into accomplishing their goals but Israel manipulates how the events happen, rockets since 2001 from Hamas killed only 17 Israelis, it's bullshitt if any are children, Israel has no "civilians" everyone is either part of the army or the IDF (Israeli Defence Force) in other words they are back up soldiers, all including women and younger people who are trained to become soldiers. but Israel killing 1500 people, most of them women and children, is ok for all the ignorant people...

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/child-killed.html

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

Hamas is doing wrong, but Hamas does not represent ALL the Palestinians, many Palestinians oppose what Hamas does especially after their uprising in Gaza, us Palestinians are standing on the Palestinian side because we know that even though Hamas is doing wrong Israel committed an even bigger mistake..
concerning what happened to Gaza, if i slap you multiple times do you grab a gun and kill me along with my family? i have made a mistake but you on the other hand have done the bigger one.
and all this BS about "the palestinians broke all cease-fire first" is what the Israelis say as an excuse to attack back, what about those who are shot dead every day? AT LEAST 2 per day are killed by the Israelis excluding their offensive on Gaza (it's not the Israel-Hamas war because Hamas is a political group with ineffective weapons, not a country with its domestic made, high-tech weapons).

The First Dragon: why do they attack Israel?? did they not take what's theirs in the first place???? if you forcefully take my house am i supposed to just look at you and turn away?? i like how you make it look like zionists simply came and settled in Palestine without even touching anyone, not that hundreds and thousands of refugee camps were the result of how now Israelis forced them out, even if it meant killing them.
How is killing 1,200 women and children out of 1,500 "trying to avoid killing civilians"?????????? where can women and children go to hide when they are beseiged in Gaza with nowhere to hide???
you want to talk about exaggerating, for 1 thing i lived in PALESTINE and i know how things are, when 2 are killed for Israel the israelis say they were 5, when there are 5 injured people they say we had 20 injuries, even those are pretending to be afraid are considered injured...in Gaza the Israelis prevented the press from entering certain areas even after they were done killing within it, why? to bury the dead bodies, that's one major reason why bulldozers are used by Israel, to hide the number of those dead, we know that 1,500 are killed but those are the ones found, i'm sure the number would exceed 2,000 if we look under the destroyed buildings.

Clyde N

Clyde N hit the spot.

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Terrorist attacks on Israel before the Six-Day War which led Israel onto winning Gaza and West Bank.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+before+2000/Which+Came+First-+Terrorism+or+Occupation+-+Major.htm

aprilisnewlife

Is this a question? and have you already got the answer? this sounds more like a rant. There are no "innocent" palestinians. There are no "palestinians". This is a pr term. If there is a remnant of this people group left on earth then I say the only victims are its children. This is the saddest part of all because it is the fault of their own parents that they suffer. If their so called leaders would have taken previous offers, then they would have their own place to call home. It was never enough for these greedy and blood thirsty savages because the only way to satisfy their blood thirst was with every last drop of Israeli blood, and with every last grain of sand that belongs to Israel. Now the blood of their innocent children is on their hands. allah has had no mercy on their lives while the G-d of Israel continues to bless and prosper his people Israel.

Eric M

In 1947, the UN said, "There will be two nations here, one Palestinian and one Jewish." The Jews said, "Yes." The Arabs said, "Kill all the Jews."

For the past sixty years, the various Arab dictatorships have kept the Palestinian people as miserable pawns. The Arab dictators drench the Palestinian people very single day with the lie that Israel is the cause of the Palestinian problems. This keeps the Palestinian people from hating the Arab dictators.

It is not Israel's fault that the Palestinian people are "oppressed."

The Arabs have been waging constant war against Israel. Sometimes Israel responds. Anybody that thinks innocents don't get hurt in wars, is delusional.

EDIT: >> what comes with wars? Hatred <<

No, that's what comes from unfinished war. When good defeats evil, then peace and prosperity comes, after war.

:Sheila:

Palestinians are only "oppressed" because Hamas and other terrorist groups are keeping them that way. The security barrier was only made because of all the suicide bombers coming across. Israel WANTS Palestinians to have a state. The problem is that many of them are too obsessed with death. Israel left Gaza and instead of seeing that as a gesture of peace, Hamas used the new land to launch rockets further into Israel.

Edit: Yes, you are right. There were some really terrible things that happened in 1948, which Israelis are still reeling over and still paying for. But, Palestinians were offered a state when Jews were offered one. And they refused. Also, does being "oppressed" allow you to kill as many men, women, and children as you want? Where do you draw the line? Do you draw a line?

Edit:
Israel is in a position now, doing more than ever, to try to make peace. That move out of Gaza was HUGE! People were literally pulled away from their homes. All in efforts to make peace. Yes they do have one more thing left to try: diplomacy. Abbas is on the right track. Hamas will only lead Palestinians to more "oppression"-- why would Israel ever remove the security barrier if Hamas is continuing to KILL KILL KILL? There needs to be some trust. Israel tried to establish it, but it got them nowhere. It is up to the Palestinians to realize that the only way to get out of this is using peaceful methods.

And the IDF does not intentionally kill Palestinian civilians. They aimed at terrorist centres in Gaza and at shooters. Yes, I heard of a case in which there were a number of shooters in the streets, among civilians, and some civilians were killed because Israel shot back.

Edit: Those stories of families being killed are all rumors. There was one famous story made popular in the news about how a woman and her children were shot at; turned out to be a misunderstanding. Show me a source that provides evidence for what you are talking about. And yes, there are Israelis who are bitter, and can you blame them? During the Second Intifada they heard about a suicide bombing a day.

Distrust us? Fine. Kill us? There is no excuse.

Mobius

Both Palestinians and Israelis were killed by members of the other side before Hamas existed. You really need to trace the violence back to its origin. The Arabs started the violence against unarmed Jewish civilians with the Nabi Mussa riots in April 1920, followed by other riots, massacres, and pogroms during the 1920's and 1930's. It was these events that led the Jews to form the Hagana self defense organization. Eventually, the Jews decided that they were going to break with their long history of being victims of violence and fight back against those who were attacking them.

In this case, it was the Arabs who were attacking them. They fought back, and prevailed, and this is what you now call oppression. Had they not prevailed, they'd all be dead.

Palestinians like to forget that they started the fight. It makes it easier for them to think of the Jews as demons, which is how they thought of them anyway. That's why it was so easy for Haj Amin al-Husseini to whip them into a murderous rage with incendiary speeches filled with false accusations.

Get the history straight. If you don't hear out both sides of the story with an open mind and with determination to find out the truth regardless of whether it's comforting, then you've already made up your mind, and there's no point in discussing evidence or history.

Edit: I didn't say you made up your mind, I said *IF* you don't hear out both sides, etc. You open-mindedness is actually very welcome and gives me hope.

One of many links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots

bubbakeeler

this war has pretty much been going on since the beginning of humans and it will most likely never stop we need to just let the duke it out sooner or later one or the other will be completly gone

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