Do you consider an Israeli who disagrees with their government's decisions a traitor?

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* Habseligkeiten

How come pro-Israelis have a problem with you?

To answer your question; no. To question your government is the best thing you can do for your country. The government is merely a temporary servant, like Mark Twain said. It's bound to be corrupt, etc. Forgive me, but this entire Gaza conflict was just too close to the Israeli elections for it to be a coincidence. I've found myself thinking it was more political than self-defense.

I think it's quite low to call someone a traitor, simply because they do not agree with their government's actions. And like people said before, Israel is a democracy (some other time, I'll get into a debate about this) and you do have the freedom of speech. Use it & don't let anyone take it away.

â€ Thorae â€ is Pro-Israeli

No, i consider them an Israeli who disagrees with their governments decisions.

mir miron

The legal definition of a traitor is "one who gives aid and comfort to the enemy ."
Do you ??

Now what's an enemy
enâ‹…eâ‹…myâ€‚ â€‚/ËˆÉ›nÉ™mi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [en-uh-mee] Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, plural -mies, adjective
â€“noun
1. a person who feels hatred for, fosters harmful designs against, or engages in antagonistic activities against another; an adversary or opponent.
2. an armed foe; an opposing military force: The army attacked the enemy at dawn.
3. a hostile nation or state.
4. a citizen of such a state.

G. #2

Well I disagree with Hosni Mubarak and the whole government of Egypt and I am Egyptian, so am I a traitor? No. So again, neither are you.

PaperbackWriter JPA

No, of course not. Israel is a democracy, and all are entitled and indeed, encouraged to express their opinions.

And as you know, Jews as a whole agree on very few things!

That said, I would expect most Jews to defend Israel's right to defend her citizens. If you disagree with *how* it was done, and you have sound reasons, and you are not condemning Israel for things which other nations do also, then why should there be a problem?

HopelessZ00

No, but I do consider it sad at times. I have a few good friends who disagree wholeheartedly, they have even tried to leave Israel. Not being rich does not allow immigration to other countries at times. Cheers!

Cher JPA

I haven't noticed anyone calling you a traitor. I've answered a several of your questions & not had issue with your views...as being irrational whether or not I agreed with them.

There is a different conversation that goes on inside Israel & outside Israel on the topic of Israel. Israelis I've talked with who are in the US for a short time, tend not to understand that the conversation here is different. It's not about politcy & nuances of what the hell would work finally or what's wrong about the government. Those are normal topics, but that's not the conversation. In Israel you fight hate at you by taking bullets & firing back. Outside Israel, the hate is verbal. The topic of Israel is about that hate at Israel, dealing with the constant influx of garbage at Israel. It's not a real conversation on real politicies.

Occasionally I try to have a real conversation & ask questions & listen to others ideas. However, mosty I try to present the basic info people are missing. Or present the support in general & skip getting into finer tuned thoughts. If I were to go to finer tuned - I'd be supporting the hate at Israel - not accomplishing a real conversation. I've noticed it takes a while for Israelis to figure out how different the conversation is here, & that my last sentence is true. It's a crummy position to be in. (Better than taking bullets though I am sure.)

Even when people themselves aren't starting out with a problem with Jews & therefore Israel, they are spitting out what they heard in the media - & if they are on the left, then that stuff. We have our own war going on here. And we'd prefer if Israeli government did a better job on this part of the war, the verbal!

What you can say there safely & is so needed to cover the spectrum of ideas...is dangerous here. It feeds into others. It's NOT understood in context! (BTW, There are some real conversations in the US too - but you have to find them.)

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I tried to ask you privately a question to enhance my knowledge to get past black & white, but didn't hear back from you. That conversation where things really can be said & it's not being a traitor to say them...is what I was looking for.

----
I was reading Amos Oz & realized how differently Israeli Jewish culture & American Jewish culture has developed since WWII on the topics of anti-semitism, but more strikingly, on living as a minority as individuals in a country with lots of safety & freedoms for, vs. living as a majority but in minority country. Americans of our generation, Jews included, have a pollyanna sense to trust in human nature being good & recovering from any conflict with a little chatting. Yet we Jews learn early how to keep our mouths shut & be careful/considerate around others. Israelis learn how to speak up freely. Yet haven't learned that sense of safety that gets past the past of Europe. I'm saying this very roughly & vaguely...but hopefully you'll get a sense of what I'm thinking.

===========
Teresa said it more succintly. I wouldn't call it being a traitor, but it can have the same results even when not intended.

Claymore Thomas III

Hey dude, don't you worry 'bout a thing.
The first person who touches you will have to deal with me.
They don't call me "Bear" for nothing. Thomas

Photo Finnish

Usually "traitors" are the people who have a different point of view in Junta regimes.
We the Finnish call them the Opposition Party and let them form a body so they can represent themselves in our parliament building.
That does not apply with my boyfriends though, heh heh!
I hate them when they have the hots for the "Opposition" body in an amorous way.

bart s

arieh:
you think youre so noble and righteous, every question showing off the fact that your a humanitarian Jew, but the fact is that you are not. israel is a democracy, so technically you aren't a traitor by law, bu don't you think you have an obligation to back israel up?

im left wing, and i question israel with my friends and people in the jewish community, but when i speak with people who are actually against israel, i show them why they are wrong.
why? because i am obliged to do so.
because people just like you and i have died and fought for a country that you so ''righteously'' disagree with, people who might not agree with every civilian death, but people who are overcome with love, patriotism and yes, obligation for eretz yisrael.

im not saying that expressing your opinion is wrong, i express the same ones you do, but when affronted with anti-zionists who could actually turn violent, i think that yes, you are obliged to defend your country in the face of danger.

"Your best friend is the one who tells you your breath smells bad." I'll leave it at that.

Mandy Roberts

If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.

Nelson Mandela

Canute

It depends on the decision.

If your "feeling that the State doesn't love me back is irrelevant" then why say it.

Are you a romantic? Do expect love from your state?

Lady Lulu

Arieh you are an honest person who tells the truth about how they feel and what they think. And better yet you use facts to do that. You are not obligated to protect anyone whether it is an individual or a government when they are in the wrong. It doesn't matter if you speak your mind privately or publicly. My country right or wrong is just an ignorant way to think. You can be patriotic, but to question your government and to protest when they are wrong is your right in a democratic society. My opinion is that to do so is an obligation, not to do so makes you complicit in any wrong they may do. I do not agree with people who are saying you should keep your negative opinions to yourself and speak only in private about those things. This makes people resent and hate Americans and Israelis who have a tendency to do just that, deny and protect at any cost. It is just the same as lying. Even the Christians who gave you such bad advice do not know what they are talking about. The bible says obey your government unless it goes against your religion. Killing, lying and self serving is against Gods laws. In this case you have the right to tell the truth regardless of who hears it. It isn't your opinions of the Israeli government and your stating them in public that harms Israel, it is the governments behaviour and illegal actions that harm Israel. The purpose of having the freedom to express your opinions is to help to make your country better. If everyone just said what was good, and ignored the negative, they would be nothing more than sheep, and the government would get out of hand. There is nothing more unpatriotic that ignoring your right to your freedoms. And I think people just might find that if you do that long enough, you will end up losing them. So just ignore it when people say things like that to you. It is emotional blackmail, and those people have an agenda. You are doing nothing wrong.

zinca

it's more about the "jews love money" kind of answers. and don't say that's fiction, you said that today. that nazi b.s. is uncalled for.

Lupines supports GEERT WILDERS

Let me put it this way. It takes the feathers in the wind story to a whole new perspective. I am not happy with any behavior of a person that entertains conversation with people that have terrorized us, or support people that terrorize us. It just gives them more feathers to spread to the wind.

Israel travel section has been subject to islamofascist and neo-nazi supporters that would love nothing better than to see the destruction of Israel and all Jewish souls. They go around spreading false propaganda in a cyber war and trying to suck up unknowing gullible souls. It is here and all over the air waves. This has consequence in the real world.

So why entertain them and not support your own people? FYI. We have been at war where real people are dieing and nobody should be entertaining the enemy troops.

Where is the peace solution in any of these conversations, the pro-active positive perspective being pushed forward, or is it just causing more harm than good? It's just feathers. Take the conversations privately next time.

Bosco

No. One would wish to see more reform-minded Israelis on this site. Most of the zionists are very extreme in their views.

Irit

i love israel too and i'm not always agree with the government, it's like every country, even the usa not all the people agree with the government - it's normal and it is not treason definitely not!
who care what others thinks, you payed your dues to israel ! most of the people here didn't do nothing to israel.

Teresa (SFECU) -â€ - pray4revival

If indeed you are an Israeli, it's one thing to have your own opinions or even to disagree with what your government does in a private conversation between you and other Israeli's. It's quite another thing to come onto an open international forum where the enemies of Israel are present and agree with them at great length, over and over. That provides many of them with yet one more tool to use to garner support for their illegitimate cause. And that... makes you a traitor to the nation of Israel.

Your stand may be just and righteous. It is certainly democratic.
It doesn't give the right to publicly try to humiliate the whole government.
Most of your posts and answers are very anti Israel.
I didn't expect the people that met me at the airport when I came home from Nam. I fought for their right to protest. I didn't fight to watch them use us as scapegoats for the government.
We fought for them . Just as the IDF fights for you and they deserve your respect no matter how many dues you have paid.
Just be grateful it didn't happen on your watch.

Gazzaa In Africa

So you are guilty of collusion with known enemies of Israel. Big deal. Suck it up.

Lots of other Jews are traitors.

Kevin S

No, because the government of Israel are traitors in the first place. Listen, I understand that the world now hates Israel, but later we will find out why exactly they went into Gaza. Ministry of Defense (if you know people from there) said they told newspapers about the incursion before it happened. What they didn't tell the newspapers is the truth. Hamas knew an invasion was coming and so did the PLO, who most likely pushed for it, as well as Egypt. Both Egypt and the PLO are scared crapless of Iran and its proxies. Iran is very sophisticated and strong, when compared with other arab countries. Most israelis would disagree with the gov't as well but many israelis wanted an attack on Hamas, because they know who Hamas is. Listen, it doesn't matter what the world thinks. If the state of Israel would vanish today...........anti-semitism would still be around. If Israel was created with no problems........anti-israeli sentiment would still be around. We have to understand that the majority of this sentiment started after 1967. Albeit, it was alive way before 1967. It was just never this strong. Arafat did a good job when it comes to creating lies about Israel. A lot of people believe Hamas is a decent organization. They never picked up a book about Hamas and read about its foundations. They don't know that many Hamasniks speak Farsi or at least know it. There is a reason for that. The situation is normal. It is the East vs. the West.

90% of Israelis do not support the gov't.....that is a lie. The majority do not support their gov't. They support any action against Hamas. They would never support (some would) action against arab civilians. Go to Israel, ask Israelis, conduct surveys. If you truly are concerned that it is a Nazi state, go to Israel and document, you may be surprised.

___

No. Most disagree.

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