Does Israel exist BECAUSE of the Holocaust???

Show all answers

mo mosh

You're correct. Until the 1920s the Arab view was: there is no Palestine; it's just "southern Syria".
At that time, Palestine was still a term only associated with Jews.
The origins of the modern state of Israel go back at least to the mid-1800s. After the horrors of the Holocaust became know, the world felt bad enough to give a go-ahead for the creation of the Jewish state.

The lie that Arabs had nothing to do with the Holocaust is just another one for the huge heap of lies people now "believe" about the Arab-Israeli Conflict.

The fact is, Arabs were active participants in the Holocaust, notably the Mufti of Jerusalem Amin al-Husseini.
Here he is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQN3VhqZ2IU

Nazi ideology still lives on in the PA and throughout the Arab world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_YrStHhckQ
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124485

paperback_writer

Jews spoke and dreamed and longed to return to Israel BEFORE the Holocaust.

Jews lived in Palestine BEFORE the Holocaust.

Jews tried to establish their homeland again BEFORE the Holocaust.

Zionism as a movement began and was active BEFORE the Holocaust.

paperback writer

The question is the wrong way round.

The correct question is surely: Could the Holocaust have occurred if Israel had been around?

And the answer is no.

Had there been Israel in the 1930s, an untold number of Jews could have been saved. When the nations of the world met in Evian, France in 1938, though they were all fully aware of the danger facing European Jewry, one country after another stated: 'We have no room for the Jews'.

Had there been Israel, there would have been a country that the European Jews could have run to.

In addition: unlike the Allies, who could not find it in their power or their hearts to spare a few bombs to destroy the tracks to Auschwitz and other death camps, Israel would certainly have done this.

The proof of what I say here is in what happened at Entebbe:

On July 4, 1946, 43 Jewish Holocaust survivors who had returned to Poland, to their home village of Kielce, were murdered in a brutal pogrom by their Polish Christian neighbours.

Now compare this with what happened 30 years later TO THE DAY: July 4, 1976, more than 100 Jews were about to be murdered in Entebbe, Uganda, by Idi Amin. They were saved by the Israeli army in one of the most daring rescue missions in history.

More than anything, Entebbe proved the importance of Israel and of having a competent Israeli Defence Force.

With armed forces for the first time in 2,000 years, Jews about to be killed did not have to rely on the goodwill of others.

To 'borrow' the words of someone who answered this question on another website:

Before Israel, they hated Jews for being weak - now there is Israel, they hate us for being strong.

DANIEL W

Israel does not exist solely because of the Holocaust, the Zionist movement predated the Holocaust as did the Balfour Declaration.

As other posters have mentioned there has always been a Jewish presence in that area of Land since the Israelites first settled there. There has always been a Jewish presence in Jerusalem (even under the Romans -after the destruction the Temple -there was a small Jewish presence in Jerusalem).

The Holocaust I think did contribute to the vote but it was not the sole reason, Modern Zionism was well established before WWII.

MikeInRI

Israel was already on its way to existing as a Modern Nation-State prior to the start of World War II. See the proposal of the Peel Commission: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission for the first major attempt made to establish the creation of a Modern State of Israel and how it was rejected by the Palestinians then. This was the first of many attempts to bring about a peaceful solution to the conflict that the Arabs rejected and another cause for the unnecessary deaths of certainly tens of thousands of people.

Good Luck!!!

C.J.

Even though Jews lived in the area and planned to live their, the only reason they got their new land, was for the protection and guilt of what we let happened. Thats the main reason people deny the Holocaust is either to cover their names, or because they feel the Jews/Zionist are controlling the world through the Holocaust

NYC Chutzpah

Question should be "Does Israel Exist Despite the Holocaust?"
Jews have survived for centuries despite the religions which came later, which are based on Judaism. Religions that are made up of proselytizers.
Jews have always wanted to return to "Palestine" Great effort was made to make the "desert bloom" in the late 1800's. Despite hitler and the arabs Jews have made the desert bloom, have made a country with a vibrant economy. Have accomplished all this WITHOUT handouts from the international community. Accomplished this while under constant attack. Israel has helped the world with their innovations in technology etc. What has the muslim community contributed to the world? (please don't mention algebra, I hated algebra class LOL)

Freedom F

I can see a number of mistakes in your post. In order for you to understand the situation, I need to be clear on the following.

1. The Jews that have been in Palestine for the last few thousand years are Middle Eastern by ethnicity. They have no connection to the zionist invaders.
2. The zionists that invaded Palestine have a lineage that has been traced back to the Khazar tribe. These people converted to Judaism in the 8th or 9th century as a form of defiance against their Arab masters.
3. Palestine is the Holy Land. It's infinite history cannot be stuffed into the relatively modern interpretation of country with designated borders.
4. A 1947 political committee meeting cannot take precedence of many thousands of years of history.

The answer to your question is YES. If it wasn't for the Holocaust, there would not have been significant impetus for people to travel to Palestine; or for international governments to agree to the zionists demands. Proof of this is in the actions of zionist terrorist organization Lehi, when they met with the Nazis to offer support in removing the Jews from Germany.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29#Contact_with_Nazi_authorities

Israel was going to exist whether the holocaust happened or not.

moneymaker

Most in the Muslim and Arab world simply ignore facts.
They are manufacturing lies after lies after lies...
It is becoming more obvious to me that the possibility of a dialog is nonexistent. I hope that the majority of Jews realize it soon.

How are you supposed to talk to people who knowingly built their Mosque right on top of your holiest of holiest?!?!

diana

"Many in the Muslim and Arab worlds claim that Israel has no right to exist" well who cares what they think or what they claim. they wanted to murder a teacher for calling a teddy Mohamed... they are not very rational people as you know.
the thing is no one asks them, no one cares. they have like 1000 countries, and they want this tiny little piece of land. well too shame, not gonna happen!
they claim they want peace while they claim they want to destroy us.
peace is for peace not peace for land. peace is for humanity not peace for land. peace is for quiet life not peace for land.

"when they love their children more than they hate us, there will be peace!" Golda Meir
http://www.davka.org/where/israel/explained/lovetheirchildren.pdf

and about Holocaust, well it did speed things up, it's for sure!

Shay p

Legally this is called "NO CASE TO ANSWER"
Every stone you lift up has a chunk of Jewish history under it, hard as the Arabs tried and are still trying history stares back in the faces.
Under the El Aqsa ARE THE REMNANTS OF THE TEMPLE
Israel the promised land of the Jew

Gam Zo Letovah

When the Arabs resorted to arms in order to wipe out the Jews and destroy the Jewish state, they accepted the verdict of arms. They lost that verdict in 1948, and they lost it again in 1967, when Jordan, which had annexed the West Bank in 1948 (without any objections from Palestinian Arabs that their sovereign nationhood was being violated), attacked Israel from the West Bank during the Six Day War despite Israel's urgent pleas that it stay out of the conflict. Israel in self-defense then captured the West Bank.

The Arabs thus have no grounds to complain either about Israel's existence (achieved in 1948) or about its expanded sovereignty from the river to the sea (achieved in 1967).

The Arabs have roiled the world for decades with their furious protest that their land has been "stolen" from them. One might take seriously such a statement if it came from a pacifist people such as the Tibetans, who had quietly inhabited their land for ages before it was seized by the Communist Chinese in 1950.

The claim is laughable coming from the Arabs, who in the early Middle Ages conquered and reduced to slavery and penury ancient peoples and civilizations stretching from the borders of Persia to the Atlantic; who in 1947 rejected an Arab state in Palestine alongside a Jewish state and sought to obliterate the nascent Jewish state; who never called for a distinct Palestinian Arab state until the creation of the terrorist PLO in 1964 Âsixteen years after the founding of the state of Israel; and who to this moment continue to seek Israel's destruction, an object that would be enormously advanced by the creation of the Arab state they demand. The Arab claim to sovereign rights west of the Jordan is only humored today because of a fatal combination of world need for Arab oil, leftist Political Correctness that has cast the Israelis as "oppressors," and, of course, good old Jew-hatred.

.

B Ø¨ØºØ¯Ø§Ø¯

of course, and you're right that they wanted a state before the holocaust, but no one was willing to give it to them ~!

EU Citizen

I notice how people overplay the fact that there was a continous jewish prescence in Israel for 3000 years or something.

The fact is for over 2000 years the jews where a very very small minority, like less then 10 000 people.

Its interesting to note that lots of these "Old Yishuv" ie the people who where there before immigrants started coming from Europe are today
anti zionists this could probably be because they where known for being ultra relegious.

Its also a fact jews where gone as a majority for over 2000 years, arabic people of mixed heritage layed roots there while the majority of jews where part of European society and had nothing to do with the "holy land".

They where/are Europeans and not semitic people

Michael J

The holocaust was both a global eye-opener and a catalyst, but it was not the cause of Israel. Zionism and the push for a Jewish state existed well befor Hitler was even born. In 1917, 16 years before the Nazi election victory and 22 years before the subsequent outbreak of WW II, the British agreed to the principle of a Jewish homeland in Israel. As you say, Israel has always been the ancestral home to Jews, and the return to Zion is one of the most oft mentioned prayers in Judaism.
What the Holocaust effectively caused was a mass realization on both sides that what the Zionists had been saying for decades was true: Jews need a land of their own and now is the time for it. Both non-accepting Jews prior and the nations of the world realized and accepted this. Israel was selected because it had already been selected over 50 years prior. Jews had already built up an infrastructure and a basis for a country. Without the holocaust, it probably would have taken a couple more decades to Israel came into being, but come into being it would have.

mark

The Zionists used the Holocaust to speed up the creation of Israel. A true statement.

Liam M

Over thousands of years, borders have shifted and the result is several groups have claims to the same pieces of land.

The responsibilities of the christian world go back to the crusades when thousands of Arabs were slaughtered in the name of God.

As Arabs, Jews and Christians are all children of Abraham, our god is the same god. I desperately hope for a permanent peace solution. To do so, everyone needs to have a secure homeland.

Mencken

Borders are not natural occurrences. They are man-made. God didn't create borders nor did the Big Bang. The ruling-elites created them. The purpose of borders is to create spheres of economic influence for a wealthy-elite and to keep the slaves on the plantations.

"The world is my country. Science is my religion." -- Christiaan Huygens

Enter Your Message or Comment

User Name:
User Email:
Post a comment: