Israel is the rightful owner to the land? Right?

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Mimi- ميمي - מימי

Well there is no rightful OWNER to Israel. It has been inhibited by different nations for a long time. Yes the Jews lived a long time ago in the country but there were other people living in it as well. This doesn't make it a Jewish land. Why did the Jews leave it if it really their land? The Israelis now keep asking the Palestinians the same question.
The fact is that before 1948 the population was 20% Jewish and 80% other races (mainly Arabs). How can the country be Jewish land? It only became a Jewish land after 1948. Half of the country rightfully belongs to the Palestinians according to UN partition plan. Half of what is now Israel was occupied.
The Torah is against the state of Israel but most Jews claim the opposite.

Peace

mark

Before the Zionist movement most Jews believed what Jews anti Zionist movement believe. So the question were all those millions of Jews who did not call for a Jewish state before the Messiah where wrong. They were not small groups back then they were the majority of the Jewish people.

PB: wrote "- Palestinians are in fact, from Syria, Egypt and other Arab countries. They are not the 'native' citizens of the area." This is the same argument used by the apartheid South Africa " The Blacks were not native people of South Africa they came form some other African country to South Africa." Good point PB.

Israelis are killers

Not really.

ÐÅ MÅN ☺ ☻

heres the truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWVqc3aDid8&NR=1

People think jews and muslims have been fighting for thousands and thousands of year. NOT TRUE, this kind of emnity did NOT exist,

Jews flourished in the arab world at a time when they were being masscarred in europe. So the european jews started to try and fine a solution to this problem.

And some of them, adhered to zionsim. and began with the idea THAT THE ONLY PLACE IN WHICH THEY COULD BE SAFE WAS WITHIN A JEWISH STATE.

These zionist jews had a design-on the land of Palestine. In which they would create a homeland for jews in the land of palestine.

This is where the conflict began.

The mainstream jews were told that palestine was empty at the time, but it was not, Arabs lived there.

At that time,(1878) about 96 % of palestinians were muslims and christain arabs, with only 3% jews.

So at the end, the land of palestine belongs to MUSLIMS AND JEWS, like it was before european jews moved in.

Edit to Paperback:

You said jews lived there for 3000 years. Yes, but they were arab jews, who lived among the muslims as brothers.

We are talking about the fake Khazaar Askenazi Jews with a regime based on racism and apartheid. They were the ones who moved the palestine.

Even middle eastern jews dont like them.

Michael J

The written text in no place explicitly forbids the creation of a Jewish state. To the contrary; the text in many places implies that a true Jewish existence can be had only in Israel. Where it gets complicated is in the Talmud, the Oral Law. In the Talmud, there is a legend, called the Three Oaths, which basically states 3 oaths that bind the world:
1) Jews must not rebel against their host nations
2) Jews must not return to Israel like a wall (this is interpreted as either by building a wall, i.e. rebelling against the host nation or as all together)
3) The nations of the world must not overly persecute and oppress the Jews
Some decided that this is actually law, and decide that the Jews should not rebuild a Jewish country in Israel. However, this has forever been the minority opinion; the Rambam (Maimonides), for example, who was the first to compile a work detailing all of Halakha (Jewish Law) did not include this as a rule. Even if one does consider it actually binding, for two reasons it doesn't pertain to Israel today. For one, the establishment of Israel was done only in line with international and local support; both the British and the UN sanctioned the creation of Israel. Secondly, the Holocaust clearly violated rule number 3, leaving the oaths null and void. In short, Judaism does not forbid the creation of Israel, except according to the most minority of opinions. I hope this clears things up.

Maya

Jewish mythology has nothing to do with it,other than inspiring the support of U.S. fundies. It's a question of establishing a western-oriented cat's paw in the Mideast. The founders of what you call israel were all atheists.

unitedbonobosvs.lions&hyenas.. .

The return of the Yehudis(hebrews) to Palestine was
forceful & by britain's decision but it was not a right &
honorable & rightful way.

Eu Citizen

Paperback before 1948 you couldn't find anything on Israelies as we know them today, the nationality Israeli like Palestinians is a Western Invenion the same as is the Palestine one may i remind you.

The jews of Israel are not the native Citizens either aswell.

The Palestinians claim to the area is that for 2000 years or so these Arabs as you call them lived in the area for generations albeit alongside a jewish minority who spent most of their time studying the Torah mostly in Jerusalem,Hebron but in Smaller communities to.

Carm3lo (Ariza likes Souljaboy)

Well no one was born owning anything. Can't the violence stop and just live peacefully? There is no need to fight for dirt when you guys can help each other out and build for the future.

C.J.

uh well thats what their book says, that can i mention they wrote, i agree with you it doesn't make sense, there is tons of proof that parts of the bible were taken off of early Mesopotamian stories as they migrated to Canaan, plus even if you deny that, how do you say that they were their first when they entire story of Joshua and the kings of Israel talk about the conquering of ancient cities (last time i checked if you conquer it from someone, you couldn't have been the first ones there)

Servant of One

Wrong, the Jews separated from Israel and didn't reform until the British gave the land to the left over survivors of the Holicaust. They took the land from the Palistinians who had lived there because the Jews no longer inhabited the land. I think the bible clearly shows the axiom that "there is one body, one God, one religion. There is no more Jew nor greek." This would show me that the land of Israel had fulfilled its purpose in being the birthplace of the Messiah and was no longer required. How ever that is my interpretation on the matter. Jews still are promised the blessing of abraham till the end of the world itself. Is the land of Israel included in the promise? I think the real promise was the Messiah coming through the line of David or the Davidic Monarchy. That promise was fulfilled. The promise of Joel the New Age of the Holy Spirit so to speak is all that is left.

Mimi-מימי- ميمي

My other account was suspended so I am giving the answer again

Well there is no rightful OWNER to Israel. It has been inhibited by different nations for a long time. Yes the Jews lived a long time ago in the country but there were other people living in it as well. This doesn't make it a Jewish land. Why did the Jews leave it if it really their land? The Israelis now keep asking the Palestinians the same question.
The fact is that before 1948 the population was 20% Jewish and 80% other races (mainly Arabs). How can the country be Jewish land? It only became a Jewish land after 1948. Half of the country rightfully belongs to the Palestinians according to UN partition plan. Half of what is now Israel was occupied.
The Torah is against the state of Israel but most Jews claim the opposite.

Peace

gypsy_cat 345

Fan,
PLEASE understand that these so-called "holy books" are nothing more than fairy tales, intended to dupe and control the masses, and to be interpreted to the reader's advantage.
It matters not who lived in Israel/ Palestine since the beginning of time; the fact is that the nation of Palestine was composed largely of PALESTINIANS at the creation of the so-called state of "Israel". It's kind of like a large group of Ohioans coming to my state, Michigan, and saying, "Sorry, but it's ours now. Get out."
Well, I'd fight like a cougar too, if that happened to me. Since "Israel" was created in response to the Holocaust, it made no sense whatever to have stolen Palestine from its inhabitants and handed over to the Jews. If this was the rational, the Jews should have been given Germany.
If Israel's the "rightful owner" of that land, then I'm the rightful owner of the Taj Mahal.

djc1175

OK, from what I have been taught, and I'm not Jewish..when Moses left Egypt to go to the promised land along the way he battled with different Arab tribes.
He along with Gideon and Deborah as well as others whose names escape me at the moment. As these battles went on the Jew's returning to their promised land were taking more and more land from the nomadic tribes ALREADY living in the area.
What gave them the right to do this? These Arabs were living in peace until someone got it in his or her head that this piece of land really belonged to them.
To me, no matter if the Palestinians were living there for 2000 years or 2 months..they were there..the Jews were not!
Imagine selling your house then 10 years later coming back and saying "OK, now it's my house again..get out!"
Do you really think the new owners would move without one hell of a fight?

Smart Ambitious

No, they are not.

Freedom F

The original owners are the ancestors of the Palestinian people. The Europeans counter this by saying that Jews have lived in the region for x thousands of years.

My question has always been: "How does the presence of the Jewish religion in the area confer ownership to Europeans."

The truth of the matter is, that if you looked at the population of people living in the Holy Land x thousands of years ago, some were Jewish and some were not. In future years, the decedents of those people changed and acquired other religions. What difference does a religion make to this question of ownership? The question should be, what was their ethnicity?

I don't believe that there is any right that exists that would allow these mostly Russian zionists to possess Palestine. Their argument is that their ancestors possessed the land x thousands of years ago. If this was so (and I don’t believe that it is so), do they still have a right to take absolute ownership of the land after 2000 years absence? The answer to this is no. At least they don’t have a right in law; in any law of any country. Zionists will counter this to say that it is their god’s gift to them. I will leave this point open to further discussion.

The last point that will be brought up, is that the British and the forerunner of the United nations, the League of Nations gave the land to the zionists. This is very true but I ask you, what right did they have to give away another people’s land?

dr ~alzheimer

why they don't make a state like Switzerland

Habib

God All-mighty indeed made it a Promised Land for them but Jews must remember they had to fight it back from the local residents at then.

God has sent down His servants on the House of Israel whenever they digressed from God's way, Hitler as a matter of fact was not the first one in Jewish history, it's been King of Persia, The Romans & a few more.

God All-wise finally dispersed them into the earth and took away their kingdom. Jews have all ways been bickering about it with God for the Kings chosen for their nation.

Somehow, they are in a effort to get back that land, they will only if the God All-powerful wills - and learning God's ways is not a man's job.

Mostly it is understood by many among the Jews, ‘God has dispersed them & the Kingdom has been taken away from them for all their digression to God’s words.’

The means that they are using to get their Promised Land back are no way supported by the Jewish Laws in vogue, and strictly speaking it doesn’t go with the orthodox Jewish laws as well.

MikeInRI

There is a group of Orthodox Jews that misinterpret the bible - they have for hundreds of years - why would they change the misunderstanding of the bible now? Read the book "The Chosen" by Chaim Potok where many of these distinctions are discussed in a very entertaining way.

Good Luck!!!

paradisemtn

I would suggest you look into Joel 3: especially verse 2

Shay p

THE TORAH DOES NOT FORBID, as the TORAH does not speak of the Messiah (in today's meaning)
A bunch of LOCOS started this.

POINT ME TO THE PARAGRAPH WERE IT SAYS SO IN THE BIBLE/TORAH

kismet

If you were indeed Jewish, you would know that the Torah does not forbid us from having our own country, or from governing ourselves.

Malka Maxwell

PB...you are fast!!! I was still trying to type...at any rate your historical breakdown looks pretty accurate....a few minor points:
-if the asker is indeed Jewish, then does that mean you are curious enough to learn other things than what you may have been already taught as a neturie karta? (If you are not, my mistake ....)
-Koran never mentions Jerusalem....and interestingly enough Mohammad NEVER set foot there.
So that should indicate how important this country really is to them! Israel begged them stay.
-The problem was not the Jewish Israeli, rather the promises made by the British to both sides and when they promised to divide Israel and ran away before doing so...leaving both sides to duke it out!!

D S

The Jews conquered the land. It's theirs. Just as non-aboriginals can now lay claim to Australia, so can Jews to Israel.

Faraj - King Of Ramadan Section

Just say this a few times to yorself.

A god gave land to a people who rarely obayed him

paperback_writer

If you are Jewish, do you mind my asking how it is that you don't know more about Israel already? No offence meant, but your question is a tad strange...

Nevertheless:

Some brief and basic facts:

- Jews have lived in that area for 3000 years, continuously.

- it used to be called, Judea, then the Romans conquered it and kicked us out, and they renamed it 'Palestina' after the Philistines, a sea faring and aggressive people.

- skip forward to 1948. Palestine is under the British mandate. There are many Jews, Arabs and Christians living there. The term 'palestinian' refers to them ALL.

- The British make two promises, one to the Jews, one to the Arabs. They promise both, that THEY will have Palestine.

- The British and the UN decide to PARTITION Palestine. Part will be for a Jewish state, part for a Palestinian Arab state.

- the Jews agree. The Arab world goes beserk and says 'forget it'. Five Arab countries declare war on the newly established Jewish state of Israel. Within 12 hours of Israel declaring independence, those five armies have attacked, simultaneously.

- the Israelis plead with the Palestinian Arabs to remain. Those that do today are FULL ISRAELI CITIZENS. But many of them listen to the demands made by the Arab leaders who tell them to flee and that they can return when the Arab armies have 'conquered' Israel.

- Israel defends herself. She gets parts of the land that she didn't originally have under the Partition plan. The Palestinians are now left homeless. They are put into refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, and left there to rot.

- At the same time, an EQUAL number of Jews are chucked out of all the Arab states. They too lose everything. But they are immediately absorbed into Israel.

- Prior to 1967, you can't find anything about the 'Palestinians' as we know them today. Nothing. They were content to be under Jordanian rule and NOT ONCE did they demand their own land.

- Palestinians are in fact, from Syria, Egypt and other Arab countries. They are not the 'native' citizens of the area.

- there were Jews living in Jerusalem before Islam even existed.

There is a lot more but I have a feeling you already know it. Just as you also know that there is a tiny minority of ultra religious Jews who believe we should not have a country until the messiah has arrived. 99.9% of Jews disagree with them.

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