Israelis: Without mentioning religion, tell me exactly why you have any right to take Palestinian Land?

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Zeno

They have no such right; no one does. And no ethnic group on earth has any right to make exclusive claim to a territory; all modern states are multicultural, admittedly to varying degrees but they are certainly not ethnocracies. This is the only Ethnic State on earth and we need not be surprised by the ferocity of it's xenophobia and racism. It is as if the U.S. were declared an official Anglo-Saxon State dedicated to driving out all other ethnic groups in order to guarantee domination by one ethnic group. This is not a modern state; in the modern state there is virtually no linkage between ethnicity and citizenship. Zionists did not set out to create a new homeland in a thinly populated British colony obviously destined for independence like Guyana,a place where they could have a normal democracy not a so-called "Jewish State" merely by virtue of being a majority and with no expulsion of the minorities. No,the zionist creed is at the most fundamental level based on discrimination; that's the whole idea. You could even today establish any number of Jewish-majority democracies without displacing anyone.

It is important to remember that this is virtually the only ethnic group on earth that is currently asserting some alleged "right" to a territorial domain belonging exclusively to their own ethnic group. In any other country you enjoy citizenship from birth and it has nothing to do with your ethnicity,nor do immigration laws. What Jews do not comprehend is that there is no objection to establishing a Jewish majority nation,so long as it does not persecute minorities and disenfranchise them,but also that this can only proceed in areas that are thinly populated such as Australia,where establishing a majority does not involve displacing millions of people. They do not understand what they are doing; they have no experience in nation-building. Canada is in fact an Anglo-Saxon majority nation but that did not occur by driving anyone out; it was sparsely populated and today there are more Indians than there were one hundred years ago; they thrive. Nor is immigration restricted to Anglo-Saxons; on the contrary they appreciate the value of multi-culturalism and actively encourage immigration from Jamaica and the Middle East. No one can call them racist. But the "Israelis" have created a system based entirely and fundamentally on discrimination yet no one can really quite put that across to them. They just plain...don't get it. They think the reason they are despised is "anti-semitism". They really do. They think if this were let us say an Asian people destroying Palestine that the world would look on with approval.

No ethnic group anywhere for any reason has a "right" to claim some country or territory as their exclusive domain. That is racism,period.

marry w

The Israeli were fooled by the west. Remember they were hated by the west. The west used the Israeli to keep the Middle East divided and a war zone country forever where both the poor Jews and the poor Arabs keep killing themselves for an old western policy.

The Ambition

theres a lot of anit-everything in this world! why do they consider themselves so special that they should get someone else's land just because they went through hardships. So did everyone, that means that african americans should take over half of america for themselves..see how absurd it is! yet is continues to exist without question, further more, they HARASS those whose lands they conquered. They've made enemies of all their neighbors.

they dont have any; they should not be existing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

the truth will reveal itself

They don't have any right to steal Palestine from the Palestinians and call themselves "israelis" , they should give it back and go back to where they came from..Europe

arigatou gozai masu!!!

well one can say that jewish people are palestinians but that word is now exclusive for the arab population... they are both semitic, so they have blood there... hmm in reality u should blame the british cause they had to be obviously in control of that part , and the french where lebanon is.. oh my lebanon has another dilemma whether the christian way of living should still be legal there now that islamo radicals want sharia there.. yeah all i know that israel happened and that how it took place.. i was born when israel existed. same with the "discovery" of america obviously which was not the only difference is that , that happened hundreds of years ago and this happened like 60 years ago.... but are the american indians bitchin about taking their land, maybe but they can't do nothing about it... maybe i am confusing u but, sadly history repeats itself.. who knows what will happen with other countries not just israel... lets say like the US, it could change, who knows.. maybe the indians will revolt or something..... (if this is confusing sorry)

michelle

It goes back to the bible. I know you don´t want to hear that, but it is part of history. The old testament bible is what the Jew follow. After reading it, including the books that were taken out by king James, it talks a lot about Jews fighting Palestine, Persian, Philistine, in-which the Philistines were drove away in the bible times, and are no longer considered a people. According to history, the Jews have fought all neighbors some time or another over the land that was given to the people of Moses. The problem with this land is religion. Religion is the main cause, and the history of blood shed over it. It is a cycle that has been going on since years B.C. I understand that the hole Jewish religions is centered around Israel, therefor they will never give up until they have it all. They have lost it and gained it many times. However, Palestine has had it for so long, so it was not right for the Jews to take it back the why they did. They could have worked something out differently with the Palestinians. It did not have to be this way, they could have lived together, like in all other Arab countries. The truth is the land was wrongfully sold out from under them, and the Palestinians have had nothing but pain in return. After so much blood has been shed on the land, it is not so holy, but it is the most cursed land now. I don´t think it is so holy now. The Zionist will lead the Jews down a rabbit hole.

αησηумσυѕ ωιтн тнє тяυтн فلسطين

Nah man, their only proof is the Torah.

they claim they are "the chosen ones"

allow me to finish that. they are the "chosen ones" to steal Palestine only to be defeated in the end.

exactly! they have NO answer for this question.

talk360

Well I am not a Israeli and am not from Palestine. But I am muslim one thing that I have learned is Israelis will never say the truth or face it. So you will not get any straight answers from any Israelis. It the fact they do not have any right to take Palestine’s land. What can you do Israel is evil, they do not have a heart like any other human, but to them it does not make a difference.

israel claims they are the chosen one's but chosen to do what grab the land of innocent and kill there children and wife and fahters. bhooo to israel

Palestine was there first, and there is no doubt in this. After the holocaust, the Palestinian land is given away of because of dumb UN moves and you seem to want to take advantage of that.

You answer your own rant. It was the only place the world decided they could have if they could keep it.
They have and even if you take God out of the equation the result is the same.
It's the old good against evil game and Israel is beating up on the bad guys. Like you.
If you think cutting an pasting this rant over again consider it will just get reported again.
You have no point to make and it's just a waste of time.

Teresa (SFECU) -†- pray4revival

Totally edited after giving considerable thought about the arrogance of your question. You said you want to leave religion out of the discussion?

Okay.. let's leave out your so-called religion.

Islam no longer exists and there is no such thing as a "Palestinian", therefore the Arabs/Egyptians/Syrians who have done nothing but make a slum of Israel have absolutely no reason or right to demand control over land that has historically been known as the Jewish Holy Land.

In short, you people don't own the world so get over yourselves.

G-d Bless Israel!!

Bosco

They don't. As to "the Arabs" having a lot of countries,there is no such entity as "the Arabs"; there are just a lot of countries where people speak Arabic. I guess it's more popular than Hebrew,so what?

Kevin S

Without mentioning personal agenda, prove to me that Jews attacked Arabs first and took their land. If you truly want to play this game, mind you have prepared a dissertation to counter whatever you are going to say. Meaning I have read everywhere there is to read.

Also about the covenant......it was never meant to be broken no matter how bad the Jews are....why? Because if you believe in the same god you have to abide my mosaic rules........why? Old testament said that no letter should ever be taken away, not even one. Has it been taken away? No! any torah u see no matter where in the world has the same AMOUNT of letters. Can one say this about other religions? Therefore the rules still stand. The rules are the rules of God through moses. Those who believe in Allah is the same god. Where is your tzitzit and tefillin?

Koshu

You are a little off on this. Not to include or disavow any history, let us look at what happen that cause this problem NOW!

On May 14, 1948, after a vote six months earlier, the United Nations granted official recognition of a Jewish free state. It was on this date that the tiny strip of land on the Mediterranean Sea known as Palestine was partitioned between Jews and Arabs, creating the State of Israel and ushering in the modern-day era of hatred and violence between the two peoples.

The United Nations rulled and voted on Palestine=wars. The UN voted on splitting Korea,= war. The UN voted on spliting Viet Nam, = war. The UN has contributed to more confusion and wars, and sadness, and people keep believing in this concept? Darfur, Rwanda, Cambodia, Somolia, etc, etc.

Why is this land so hotly contested? Both groups lay claim to this land for historical and religious reasons going back thousands of years. One might hope that after all these years, they would have learned to live together peacefully. However, theirs is a fragile coexistence most often fraught with localized violence, fighting, shooting, bombing, arson and more recently, suicide bombers. The violence ebbs and flows like an ocean's tide – escalating at times to near war and falling at other times to periods of protest or active non-violence.

lol

""we deserve it cuz we r good""

akcarlson721

because jews have always been persecuted and britain promised it to them. if there is no jewish state a lot of jews won't feel safe because there still is a lot of anti semitism in the world.

mir miron

Look at these maps carefully
Holy land- not Palestine 1880, Philistine - mentioned on left side Gaza side.
http://www.kookart.co.il/UserFiles/Image/maps/map%2001.jpg

Israel 1780 -Holy land- Tribes
http://www.antiquemaps.com/asia/images/27537.jpg

Egypt 1700
Egypt, no borders, Sinai (Araba Felicia Fars) not part of Egypt
http://www.themaritimegallery.co.uk/Assets/Maps/IMGP2357.jpg

Modern Map of Jordan
http://www.jdtours.com/img/jordan_map.jpg

✡I LOVE THE ZIONIST ENTITY✡

The Nazis told us to go back to Palestine (Israel).
And now the Arabs are telling us to get out of Palestine (Israel).

Where the f#*& are we supposed to live, huh?

No matter where we go or where we live everyone hates us.
The whole reason for having a Jewish state in Israel is so that we can have a place to go if the countries that we live in decide to get rid of us.

We aren't asking for much, it's not like we are asking for the whole Middle East for G-d sakes!
All we want is a small piece of land that is about the size of New Jersey.

And another thing, there are people of other religions living in Israel.
There are Christians, Druses, Samaritans, Muslims, etc. Do Israelis go around killing these people? No. Only the ones that are sending in suicide bombers so that they can kill as many so called "infidels" as possible so that they can go to eternal paradise.

As for those people who protest against the state of Israel. They don't know what the hell to stand for. If it's a cool thing they stand for that particular side but if it's not then they won't.

WHAT THE QUR'AN REALLY SAYS

by Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi
THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT ALLAH GAVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO THE JEWS
AND WILL RESTORE THEM TO IT AT THE END OF DAYS

The Qur'an recognizes the Land of Israel as the heritage of the Jews and it explains that, before the Last Judgment, Jews will return to dwell there. This prophecy has already been fulfilled.

MUSLIMS MUST RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF ISRAEL AS A JEWISH STATE

Is there any fundamental reason which prohibits Muslims from recognizing Israel as a friendly State?

I realize that a negative answer to the above question is taken for granted by popular opinion. My approach, however, is not based on popular opinion or the current political situation, but on a theological analysis of authentic Islamic sources.

Viewing the Jewish return to Israel as a Western invasion and Zionists as recent colonizers is new. It has no basis in authentic Islamic faith. According to the Qur'an, no person, people or religious community can claim a permanent right of possession over any territory. The Earth belongs exclusively to God, and He is free to entrust sovereignty over land to whomever He likes for whatever time period that He chooses.

"Say: 'O God, King of the kingdom (1), Thou givest the kingdom to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off the kingdom from whom Thou pleasest; Thou endowest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: all the best is in Thy hand. Verily, Thou hast power over all things.'"(2) [Qur'an 3:26]

From the above Qur'anic verse we deduce a basic principle of the Monotheistic philosophy of history: God chooses as He likes in the relationship between peoples and countries. Sometimes He gives a land to a people, and sometimes He takes His possession back and gives it to another people.

In general, we can say that He gives as a reward for faithfulness and takes back as a punishment for wickedness, but this rule does not permit us to say that God's ways are always plain and clear to our eyes, since His secrets are inaccessible to the human intellect.

Using Islam as a basis for preventing Arabs from recognizing any sovereign right of Jews over the Land of Israel is new. Such beliefs are not found in classical Islamic sources.

Concluding that anti-Zionism is the logical outgrowth of Islamic faith is wrong. This conclusion represents the false transformation of Islam from a religion into a secularized ideology.

Such a false transformation of Islam was in fact made by the late Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini. He is the one person most responsible, both morally and materially, for the repeated Arab defeats in their conflict with the Jews in Israel.

Husseni not only incited Arabs against Jews. He also encouraged the torture and murder of all Arabs who correctly understood that Arab cooperation with Jews was a precious opportunity for the development of the Land of Israel. Husseini ended his woeful life by putting his perverted religious teachings at the service of the evil and pagan Nazis.

After Husseini came Jamal al-Din 'Abd al-Nasser. Nasser based his policy on Pan-Arabism, hatred and contempt for Jews, and an alliance with the atheistic Soviet Union. Nasser's terrible choices were critical factors in maintaining Arab backwardness. Fortunately, most of Nasser's mistakes were afterward corrected by the martyr Anwar Sadat. (3)

After the defeat of Nasserianism, Islamic fundamentalist movements made anti-Zionism the primary feature of their propaganda. They presented the negation of any Jewish rights to the Land of Israel as rooted in authentic Islam and derived from authentic Islamic religious principles
http://www.templemount.org/quranland.htm...

It was Assyrian. Not Arab. Now it's Israeli.
If you are talking about wanting an oath of allegiance or leave? I don't see the problem.
Prior surveys ha

THE TRUTH IS HOLY

Uninterrupted Jewish presence in the land for 3,300 years. Arabs (other than Bedouins) have had relatively little presence in the land other than the last few decades.

RJ ✡ לעולם לא שוב

There was never a sovereign country called Palestine, therefore your question is based on false premises and cannot be answered.

The Jordanians "stole Palestinian land" too, if we're going by your theory. Have you ever heard the phrase "burden of proof"? You cannot prove that there ever existed a country called Palestine. Neither can anyone else.

3sc: they block everyone who doesn't agree with them and then they say that you are scared to answer their questions LOL. Every time they dig in J'lem they find something ancient that proves a continuous Jewish presence in Israel. That is why Arabs are so vehemently against archeological digs :-D

kismet

Jews have had a continued presence in Israel for 3,000 years and have never relinquished their claim. Arabs rejected the United Nations resolution of November 29, 1947 calling for the establishment of two states in Palestine, with an all out war to eliminate Jews enacted by the Arab world. After the 1967 War -- another war of Arab aggression -- Israel recovered a small remnant (13% in whole) of what was promised to them by the UN -- eventually handing back the Sinai Desert for peace with Egypt in 1977.
Between 1948-1967, Jordan and Egypt, who governed the West Bank and Gaza, respectively, never offered to surrender those lands to form an independent Palestinian state. No Palestinian organization ever sought an independent state. No Arab country had even suggested its existence. An Arab Palestine has never been the name of any nation or state. 'Palestine' was a geographical term used only to identify administrative boundaries within larger empires, nothing more.
The purpose of a separate Palestinian State was defined faultlessly by the late Zoher Moessein, head of PLO bureau of military operation:
"There is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians and Lebanese; we are all members of the same nation. Solely for political reasons are we careful to stress our identity as Palestinians. Since a separate State of Palestine would be an extra weapon in Arab hands to fight Zionism with. Yes, we do call for the creation of a Palestinian state for tactical reasons. Such a state would be a new means of continuing the battle against Zionism, and for Arab unity."
An offshoot of the occupation myth is the 'refugee' fabrication. It states that a significant portion of the Arab population was driven out of Israel by force during the 1948 War. It makes for good copy, but it's false. Egyptian activist, Edward Said, the most famous of these "refugees," for example, has been exposed as a fraud, as has this revisionist history.
Mark Twain, a man, one would think, as devoid of 'imperialistic Zionist' intentions, wrote in 1867 that Palestine was "a desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds." Yet, Arabs have claimed that over a million refugees were forced from their homes during the 1948 War of Independence -- this number includes Arabs whose relatives entered Israel from 1946 onward. The number of Arab refugees is probably closer to 400,000, most of whom took it upon themselves to flee despite Jewish assurances that they would not be harmed. The contention that Arabs were removed by gunpoint is totally incorrect. Research by the Arab-sponsored Institute for Palestinians Studies in Beirut found that "the majority of the Arab refugees in 1948 were not expelled and 68 percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier."
In her meticulously researched book, From Time Immemorial, Joan Peters proves that a roughly equivalent number of Jewish refugees were expelled from Arab nations during the same period -- 120,000 from Iraq alone. It is estimated that one million immigrants were integrated into Israel's society from 1948-1950.
None of them, on the other hand, were confined for life to refugee camps.

Lupines supports GEERT WILDERS

Apart from Religion, and to note that there never was such a nation as "Palestine" Britain gave their Mandate to us as being natives to the land. Britain gave the Arabs their other modern countries as well. Britain also explained that prior to the UN vote "it is not international land therefore not internationalists place to divvy up the land." Britain ruled the land, and they gave it up to Jewish people who were already there, and to make homeland for Jewish people around the world. 14May1948.

The statehood on all the countries that waged war on fledgling Israel is as follows: Jordan 25 May 1946, Israel 14, May 1948, Syria 17 April 1946, Lebanon 22 November 1943, Egypt 18 February 1922, Iraq 3 October 1932, North Yemen 1918, South Yemen 1968

Israel won that war, she actually won her land back from the lame UN vote. The land wasn't taken from anyone else either, so you see, the other Arabs also got their modern nations. Jordan rec'd 80% of the British Territory that was named Palestine. It is just that Arabs did not want Israel to exist at all and declared war on Israel. Everyone gave up except Syria, and Syria invented these "Palestine" myth of a people to continue the war. Arabs already admitted this:

-------------------------------------
Arab Quotes:
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese." -- PLO Executive Committee member Zuhayr Muhsin, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw."

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it."- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -
"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not."
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -
"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria."- Rep. of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956
-Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in the year 635 hardly lasted, as such, 22 years."

"You Arabs admitted that the [Palestinian] cause began after 1967...The Israelis can sue you now, and if they sue you they will win."
Qaddafi to Arab Summit 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP2ePHOLSqo

"Palestine and Jordan are one..." said King Abdullah in 1948.

"The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan," said King Hussein of Jordan, in 1981.

"Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is only one land, with one history and one and the same fate," Prince Hassan of the Jordanian National Assembly was quoted as saying on February 2, 1970.

Accordingly, Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared, in 1980, "The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture."
------------------------------------

So you see, these Arabs have an identity crisis. First they are all Syrian, then they are Jordanian, then they are new Palestinian people wanting to take Israel. The simple fact of the matter is that Syria invented the PLO to overtake Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon. These people are Syrians.

Man

Very simple.

1. Every people in the world has an ethnic homeland and the right to freedom from persecution, racial violence and hatred.

2. The oldest historical evidence points to a Jewish presence in the Holy Land as long ago as 8,000 years. The Jews had a political presence for thousands of years in the form of the ancient kingdoms of Judah and Israel. This is well-documented and known. The Jews lived at the crossroads between Asia, Europe, and Africa, and came in the way of many empires and civilizations. One of these, the Romans, put a final end to the 2,000 year old Jewish political presence in 68 AD.

3. Jews, unlike Christians and Muslims, believe that people who do not follow their religion can still attain salvation and go to heaven. They call these people "righteous gentiles." Righteous gentiles can attain salvation if they are moral men and follow the Seven Noahide Laws that forbid adultery, murder, theft, envy, etc. They are simply the gentile version of the Ten Commandments.

So, Jews never had a preaching tradition like the other Abrahamic faiths did. Conversion to Judaism is purely out of an individual's will and not out of persuasion, and it is a rigid process that typically takes two years.

Even today, Judaism receives only about 10,000 converts a year.

So, it is possible to see that today's Jews, who number only 13 million, are almost all the closest genetic descendants of the ancient Jews/Hebrews/Israelites/ Bibilical "Children of Israel." Similarities in DNA have proved this.

4. The Muslim claim to the Land of Israel goes back to the vision of Muhammad called the Israa and the Mi'raaj. This was in the mid seventh century, thousands of years after the first Jewish settlement took place there.

5. Israel is built on only 7,000 square miles of land, including the Negev Desert. Muslims have 58 states covering millions of square miles. Israel is the most economically, academically, governmentally, and socially advanced state in the Middle East. The Jews have not mismanaged it.

6. Israel, even as the only Jewish state in the world, is still a pluralistic society where many gentiles live, work, and marry as citizens with full rights and powers. It is only 75% Jewish. Arab Muslims in Israel live much better lives than most Christians and Jews do/did under modern Islamic rule.

There is no reasoning with Muslims. The vast majority of them still want Israel wiped off the map at all costs. Israel simply does not exist to them. This "Bosco" user asked for evidence of the ancient kingdom of Israel and when I provided it, he blocked me.

But that's fine. A new force in town has returned, and his name is Benjamin Netanyahu.

You told me to give you a historical and not a religious reason why the Jews are entitled to the land, and that is what I have done.

"Palestine was there first, and there is no doubt in this."

you're wrong from the get-go.
there was never a country of palestine, and israel never took it.
palestine was a region with jews and arabs, and it became 2 states, one jewish and one arab. totally fair.

there was no country called palestine that was invaded and stolen. never happened. i dare you to prove otherwise. you can't. it never happened.

the only country ever there was the ancient state of israel, and now the modern state of israel. there was never an arab country on that land, never a palestine.

if you stop lying, you might learn something.

Arieh

The Jews paid for the land by money and the sacrifice of lives through the Holocaust and the wars thereafter. The land was paid for long before the Holocaust, but it sure motivated the UN to make a move on behalf of the Jewish people. Just as they have made a move for the Palestinians. It seems that the Palestinians will have to pay for it in a similar fashion before they have a state of their own.

___

That is why they haven't done this.

The only thing that occurred was defensive battles in which land was forfeited by the loser. You can now travel to this land as a tourist.

Much of it is great. There is a ski resort @ Mt Hermon in the Golani.

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