Jewish religion or ethnicity?

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G.O.A.T - sigur

i asked the same question, it weird how most Jews are confused. just like us.

Shay p

You can't convert to an ethnicity, so .......

Janoobee

Judaism is a respected religion that rejects the pagan racial ethnicity concept

PaperbackWriter JPA

Here is the accurate answer:

We are not an 'ethnicity'. We can't be - there are Jews of ALL ethnicities. Jews do not share any one, unifying ethnicity.

What we are:

We are best and most accurately termed a FAMILY - and the religion attached to the family is Judaism.

A person is automatically part of the family if born to a Jewish mother, but anyone can convert and they are then *adopted* into the family.

A person does not have to adhere to the Jewish religion, to still be part of the family. But they STOP being part of the family IF they join ANY other faith.

Does that make sense?:)

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edit

Am astonished to see 'arieh' referring to 'jewish blood'. That term was invented by Hitler and the Nazis. It is nonsensical. What, do we have kosher chicken soup running through our veins?!

We are not an 'ethnicity' and we are not a 'race' - I think the asker already knows we are not the 'race' as I note she doesn't ask about this :) (many people do, so you are one step ahead of them!)

We are a family - I genuinely think this is the best and most accurate term for us.

We are also a nation - and we were one before we had a physical nation. The term 'nation' used to be defined in a different way.

dandyl

Judaism can be thought of as being simultaneously a religion, a nationality and a culture.

Throughout the middle ages and into the 20th century, most of the European world agreed that Jews constituted a distinct nation. This concept of nation does not require that a nation have either a territory nor a government, but rather, it identifies, as a nation any distinct group of people with a common language and culture. Only in the 19th century did it become common to assume that each nation should have its own distinct government; this is the political philosophy of nationalism. In fact, Jews had a remarkable degree of self-government until the 19th century. So long as Jews lived in their ghettos, they were allowed to collect their own taxes, run their own courts, and otherwise behave as citizens of a landless and distinctly second-class Jewish nation.

Of course, Judaism is a religion, and it is this religion that forms the central element of the Jewish culture that binds Jews together as a nation. It is the religion that defines foods as being kosher and non-kosher, and this underlies Jewish cuisine. It is the religion that sets the calendar of Jewish feast and fast days, and it is the religion that has preserved the Hebrew language.

If Judaism an ethnicity? In short, not any more. Although Judaism arose out of a single ethnicity in the Middle East, there have always been conversions into and out of the religion. Thus, there are those who may have been ethnically part of the original group who are no longer part of Judaism, and those of other ethnic groups who have converted into Judaism.

If you are referring to a nation in the sense of race, Judaism is not a nation. People are free to convert into Judaism; once converted, they are considered the same as if they were born Jewish. This is not true for a race.

Farshid

hi friend
Jewish is a religion and their superior prophet is MOOSA. In ancient times, Moosa was emerged between a tribe named Israel and invited them to accept this religious, so majority of peoples in the past who believe in Jewish belonged on Israel tribe. But, at the present time by considering to points of marriage between Jewish tribes and none-Jewish tribe, extension of the religious between another people from different tribes it is not true that iit is considered as an ethnicity.
Therefore I conclude that it is a religious, not an ethnicity. I hope I can give you a clue about your question

Guy Who Actually Studies Genes

'Jewish' is merely a religion. The people who refer to the term 'Jewish' in a ethnic or racial context tend to not be knowledgeable on the topic of anthropology.

Jews can be Chinese,Arab,Iranian,Indian,White European,Turkish,Palestinian(The Jews who are indigenous to Israel),etc.

The amount of 'connection' that a Jew may have via DNA is no more significant than the amount of DNA that ALL HUMANS SHARE due to one common origin.

SJC

Religion.

kismet

Judaism is considered by most to be a religion and a nationality.

<>http://www.ethnicityonline.net/judaism.htm>
"Jews consider themselves a nation rather than a religious community;
they are a hugely diverse group that shares some aspects of religious
observance and have shared historical roots. They have a great sense
of community ? indeed, the Jewish nation is more like an extended
family with its close connections and shared sense of discipline."

Of course, Judaism is not dependent upon one's DNA, since Judaism is not a race, but Jews ARE of a Semitic origin. The reason this is mentioned frequently on this site is because many YA users claim the Jewish people are Europeans who do not belong in the Middle East and thus do not have a right to their homeland.

The fact is that Abraham, the father of the Jewish nation and the first Jew was promised by G-d to inherit the land of Israel, which will be his home and the home of his descendants through Isaac (see the book of Genesis). Moreover, there was NEVER a time in the past 3,500 years WITHOUT a Jewish presence in Israel.

So regardless of whether Judaism is a race, a religion, an ethnicity, a family, or an affiliation, the fact remains that Israel was, is, and will always be our homeland.

@pibroch1234
Non-Jewish Israelis CAN AND DO CONVERT! There have been quite a few such instances among Muslim and Christian Israelis! Although we do not LOOK for converts, we do accept them with open arms. I should know, since my husband converted to Judaism!

KNAYA Argentino Errante

As early as 1919, Adolf Hitler defined Jews as "a racial and not a religious group." His judgment was wrong and deadly.

Not all Jews practice Judaism, but any person can become Jewish through religious conversion. Traditionally, anyone whose mother is Jewish has been identified as Jewish, but that condition is not necessary for Jewish identity, either. Presently, many Jews are citizens of the modern state of Israel, but a majority of the world's Jews do not fit that description. Who is a Jew? It's a complex question.

Jews trace their origins to the biblical patriarch Abraham, who lived almost 4000 years ago. Judaism, a distinctively monotheistic religion, is rooted in the exodus of the ancient Hebrew people from Egyptian slavery and in experiences they shared under Moses' leadership at Mount Sinai. The early Jews' ritual laws and ethical rules distinguished them from other groups.

Eventually occupying the Mediterranean coastal land of Canaan, the Jews established the kingdom of Israel. Unable to sustain the unity and autonomy it enjoyed from about 1000 to 922 b.c.e., the kingdom was split by internal divisions, besieged, and occupied by a variety of conquerors. In 70 c.e., the Romans ruthlessly put down a sustained Jewish rebellion. Most of the surviving Jews were dispersed to various parts of the Roman Empire. Exiled Jews have lived in European lands for more than 2000 years.

Whether their outlooks are secular or religious, their homes in Israel, Europe, the United States, or anywhere else in the world, Jews are not a race but a people unified by memory and history, culture, tradition, and religious observances that are widely, if not identically, shared.

Lisa

From my experience and observations, I believe that it's neither. It's a way of life. It's a culture. It's a community. It's a group of people who share a lot more than just a religion. And it is not a race either because there are Jewish people of all races. For example, it is not a simple task to convert to Judaism. You have to be accepted into their community. You have to study the Torah and learn the holidays. It's not like you wake up one morning and decide to be Jewish. You have to learn the customs and ways of their community. I like how Paperback referred to it as a big family, because that's basically what it is. It's not like Christianity or Islam where you can just convert in one day by letting Jesus into your heart or whatever. Faith is only one factor involved in Judaism. Someone can be born into Judaism and not be "religious," but many of these people are still very "Jewish" because it's more than religion. If one does decide to convert, they must alter their ways, their beliefs, their outlook on life, even their diet, and possibly some of their activities, etc., etc.... the list goes on. I know this because I witnessed this first hand.

Veronica Alicia

I don't think anyone has set out to to prove that Jewish people do not have "Semitic" DNA, but I believe that there is pretty overwhelming evidence to show that all Jews with tested DNA, do indeed have links with the Middle East through their Matrilineal DNA.
I guess you must have conducted tests on the rest to "know there is no way that they have Semitic blood". A slight exaggeration, methinks, based upon presumption.
If it comes to not proving anything, my original ancestors were in the Middle East region 20,000 years ago, and I'm a Brit who is not Jewish, nor as far as I'm aware (back to the 1500's) were any of my ancestors.

custardetapioca

Judaism is the religion practiced by the Jewish People...how many non-Japanese do you know who practice Shinto! You do NOT "get converted"...you must already have a mentality which Jews would recognize. In regards to this, the Bible states that we must NOT "recognize faces" which would mean that race is NOT what makes a person "Jewish" but attitude and behavior. Again, there are different types of Judaism since it is not a monolithic religion! Nonetheless, Jews can recognize other Jews no matter their racial features. Let's face it, Arabs and Jews do NOT act alike. This even despite the fact that their RELIGIONS may be similar!

Duane

Forget about "Semitic blood" ; there is no such thing. Semites are a linguistic group,period. There is no such thing as "semitic blood". As to your question the existence of Arab Jews from Yemen and African Jews from Ethiopia would rather tend to suggest there is no such thing as any ethnic group known as "jews" and I don't think there is an ethnologist on earth who would suggest as much. Even the U.S - as rabidly pro-zionist as it is - does not pretend Jews are an ethnic group; under U.S. census laws it is purely a matter of religious affiliation. Which means among other things that of the world's 13 million self-proclaimed Jews only about 5 million actually are Jewish in any realistic sense,unless you're a geneology buff. It's one of the smallest religions on earth; even the Bahai Faith has more members than Judaism.

But back to the question: anyone of any race or ethnicity can convert to Judaism. I could. You could. So what does DNA have to do with religion? Answer: nothing. It's just meaningless rubbish. Like talking about "Secular Jews". Meet any Secular Catholics lately? Search the world in vain on that. I don't recall ever meeting any Secular Muslims either.

I think we all know an obvious con job when we see one. But don't say so. Heaven forbid. They might start calling you names. Ouch. Boy does that hurt. I tremble yes absolutely tremble before such a prospect as that.

Lupines supports GEERT WILDERS

Hi. DNA is just one of many tools today that give people glimpses into their past. That is not accurate determination the answer is no.

Ethnicity as it is defined thru cultural only ties, yes, but exclusive of DNA (racial) heritage, no. Ethnicity has a broader meaning so one has to understand that term and I think this one term confuses people the most. It is cultural OR racial ties. So by one qualifier, yes, by the other qualifier, no.

Race, no as people can convert and the diaspora has mixed in with general populace and brought other races back with them.

Religion yes it is defined thru religion

gottago

Honestly, I think we have a hard time with this question because we have no frame of reference.There is no other religion that began as the descendants of one family. There is no other family (as far as I know) that can trace it's roots back 4000 years. There is no other People that lost their homeland and were spread all over the world, adapting to and adopting some of the culture of their countries, but yet retaining it's unique identity . There is not other Nation that allows conversion.
So here's what we do understand:
1) Judaism is a religion. G-d gave the Torah to the Jewish People 3320 years ago and that Torah is the foundation of all things Jewish.
2) Judaism is not an ethnicity. There are Jews of every color and race.
3) Most Jews are descended from one family (That of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
4) Judaism has always accepted converts who truly want to serve G-d as Jews.
5) Jewish is not a nationality, but most Jews feel a connection to our historic homeland.
6) There is a lot of research on the "Jewish DNA" and I don't know a lot about it. While it's been watered down for thousands of years, there are apparently some very strong connections.

hannahmommy

Jewish is generally used interchangable between the religion and the people improperly.

Jewish= Religion
Hebrew= People having linage to the people of Israel
Israeli= One whose residence is in Israel

pibroch1234

Paperback and Duane, your respective statements that anyone can convert are not correct:

Non-Jewish Israelis cannot convert to Judaism. They will not be recognized by the Israeli Government as Jews.

To be recognized as a convert involves going before an Orthodox Jewish control panel which although officially not part of the government, its decision is the only one recognized. So you must have a direct maternal Jewish bloodline so virtually all applicants fail. (So they must continue to put up with the discrimination against them by the ruling Jewish elite and a large proportion of ordinary Jews).

Interestingly, a Jewish Israeli tried every legal process possible to be recognized by the Israeli Government as an Israeli rather than a Jew. He failed at every attempt.

Edit: Kevin S has since informed me by email:

"I have personally known several people who converted and now serve in the IDF and live in the country. They had to go through a pretty good process to first get converted by a Rabbi like Chabad then show some documents then live several years in an observant lifestyle. Converting takes many years.

"You can convert and live in Israel if you want.......you would also have to show that you are 100% observant, not moving just for money willing to go to the IDF. "

Edit 2: I have yet to see or hear about any studies which indicate that Jews don't tend to share statistically significant genetic links. I've sent 'Guy who knows about Genes' an email asking him for evidence of his blanket assertion.

Divine Creation

Jewish (Judaism)= religion

Israelite= ethnicity

I am talking about the original Israelites not the boot legged. The ones from the time of Moses.

About the DNA.... More than half of the Palestinians have the similar DNA to the "Jews", which also tells us that the Palestinians are also original inhabitants. Beside DNA is not a deed for the land.

marry w

Jewish is religion like any other religion but Zionism made it ethnicity in the 1800s. There are black Jews and White Jews and Asian Jews.

Hamad is T.C. in fooling

blah blah blah there are no Arab jews
they are outcasted gypsies decided to be jews

Kevin S

"I know there is no way that all of them have Semitic blood, or that they are connected to the middle east in any way. '

Did you know that close to 40% of arabs tested with DNA have no semitic blood but have central asian (conqured) and sub saharan (slaves) DNA?

There are some false statements in your statement.

"on about DNA, and Jewish superiority, as far as intelligence, artistic talent, and humour goes"

This is a myth entertained moreso by Christians than by Jews or Muslims. Jews are extremely hardworking just like the American or the Lebanese in America. With hard work in America, you can succeed and this phenomenon (if i can even say that) is seen over many ethnic groups in the United States. There is no such thing as superior genes. This was a myth expressed by Watson (who found out about DNA from previous works).

In terms of IQ Jews have shown exceptional talent in verbal ability and only average mathematical ability. Verbal ability is gained through hard work. Mathematical ability, unfortunately seems to be not well understood and is likely due to neural connections.

"So which one exactly is it?"

Religious Jews refuse to call Judaism a religion. Jews rarely mixed in europe or the arab countries. This is hard to fathom because 2000 years has passed by since the inception of the diaspora (which was already present). Nobody thought the genetic tests would reveal that Jews resemble each other so greatly. The Judeans or Jews held certain beliefs just like the original arabs held certain beliefs. Arabs wanted to spread their beliefs because that is part of their belief system. In the Judean belief system, spreading the beliefs is unnecessary because everyone is going to heaven. Therefore, the ethnic group has been preserved. You can convert, but it doesn't change anything. They will marry someone who was already Jewish by ethnicity and down the line they will be fully Jewish. They have preserved the Judean languages over time: aramaic, some caananite dialects and Hebrew. They have preserved all of their beliefs over time as well and even wrote more commentaries on them.

If you want to be specific then the ethnicities are:

Ashkenazi (word taken from the Jewish bible)
Mizrachi (word taken from the Jewish bible)
Sepharad (word taken from the Hebrew language)

They match each other genetically so much that its like comparing ukrainians to russians or sicilians to southern italians or lebanese to syrians or afghanis to persians.

It's not a myth.......look at your question

"How can a German Jew and a Spanish Jew, or an Arab Jew be of the same ethnicity?"

German Jew

http://www.mosaisk.com/auschwitz/images/Chaim_Weizmann.jpg

Spanish jew

http://camillepissarro.net/images/Camille%20Pissarro/Camille_Pissarro.jpg

Arab Jew

http://www.dangoor.com/issue78/images/kadouri01.jpg

Of course there are exceptions, but take a trip to Israel......you would surprised just how many ashkenazi Jews resemble arabs or persians and how many arab jews resemble greeks and italians.

Arieh

Personally, I believe in the "humour gene".

Judaism is a religion but due to intermarriage within our "tribes" up until the beginning of the 20th century, this has manifested itself into a thing called "Jewish blood" with its inherrent strengths maintained in the traits you mentioned. This is true for the Arabs also (who tend to be mostly Muslims), the difference being that there are so many more Arabs than Jews in the world, that it seems that we are more than a religion. The Arab blood has been much more "diluted" because of the disproportianate population of their people. Aren't we all the offspring of Abraham anyway?

Slick Sly

It can be both.

Judaism is a religion, so if a black person, or asian person, or alien from mars, or whoever the heck wants to follow the Jewish religion, they will be "Jewish" as far as their religion goes after they convert to Judaism, regardless of their ethnicity.

However, a lot of people who are descendants of European Jews, the Ashkanazi Jews, consider themselves to be ethnically Jewish, genetically speaking. This is because many people have noticed that caucasian Ashkanazi Jews of European Jewish lineage often have similar features, such as curly hair, pale skin, larger than average noses, larger than average lips, and so forth. Sort of in the same way that you can often tell if someone is of Irish ethnicity by their red hair and features, or if they are Spanish, or Italian. All three of those fall into the broader caucasian ethnicity, but they also have subcategory ethnicities of Irish, or Spanish, or Italian. Similarily there is a subcategory ethnicity for Ashkanazi Jewish heritage in some people's opinion.

I hope that clarifies.

PETER S

I don't know, but I would guess that both are closely interlinked . Remember, there is freedom of choice over what any human being believes! So, you can have a person who is genetically Jewish, but who is a Christian! And, any mixture of religion and ethnicity you care to mention! I used to know a man who adopted the Jewish faith as a proselyte!-Not genetically Jewish, but took the Jewish faith! People like to stick together as a bunch, but which bunch and what reason,allows for infinite variety!

SuperPav!ÐšÐ“Ð‘-Out to get you :)

Its both.

T2007

Jewish is ethnicity. Judaism is religion of the Jews. Though, there are non religious Jews, Christian Jews, etc. And there are non Jewish people that practice Judaism. So, Jewish is ethnicity. You don't stop being Jewish if you change religion, and you cannot become Jewish if you convert to Judaism.

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