Question for Christian posters on Israel section?

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J Q Public

Most Christians believe Israel is necessary for the return of Christ and the fulfillment of Revelations. Armageddon and the new Jerusalem.

I'm not a real religious Christian and I don't support anyone other than my family. I don't believe God is a real estate agent and I don't try to explain Jewish beliefs. It would be nice if Jewish folks were respectful enough of other religions to not disrespect or answer for them.

Duane

Almost all of the U.S. supporters of Palestine here are Christian,including me. You are thinking of the "fundamentalist" or evangelical "Christian". They represent a very deviant strain of Christianity,both theologically and in terms of education and politics. They reject the concept of the New Covenant which is the core of Christianity; they really aren't Christian at all in my opinion and they are a minority of Christians even in America; elsewhere they are practically non-existent. The reason they come here is precisely because they embrace the Old Covenant,hence they regard Jews as continuing to be God's Chosen People; they can do wrong. Plus,evangelical tv ministers take large bribes from the zionist regime to promote it. Now there is an organization called Christians United for Israel (CUFI) which is attracting some attention but is largely considered an embarassment by mainstream Christians. Your comments on Islam and Christianity are correct; Judaism calls Jesus - Issa in Islam - the son of a whore; Islam reveres Him as a divinely inspired prophet,and venerates the Virgin Mary,who fundamentalist "Christians" regard as "the whore of Babylon". Basically they are a reverse-angle of messianic Jews: former Christians who have in essence embraced Judaism without realizing the contradiction. They are not representative. The first organized opposition to Zionism came from the Muslim-Christian Associations formed by the Catholic clergy all across Mandate Palestine in 1919. 75% of all Christians are Catholic and the Church was and remains a staunch supporter of the Palestinians. Former Archbiship of Jerusalem Michel Saaba ( a Palestinian) is now the head of the international Catholic peace organization Pax Christi. You mention the media; I think you also are permitting yourself to be misled by it. They give huge publicity to American redneck fundies,while ignoring mainstream Christians. Most Christians would like to see Palestine have a normal non-sectarian government that bans ethnic and religious discrimination. We do not favor the Holy Land being turned into a combination of Burbank and Nazi Germany by a fanatical jewish racial cult and we are deeply committed to a free and democratic Palestine. It belongs to Christianity and Islam,the two pillars of the one true faith of God; most "Jews" are atheists and the 20% who aren't are religious extremists. In 2001 the "Grand Rabbi" of Jerusalem publicly called for the mass sterilization of all Arabs on earth,wherever they might be and regardless of religion. But today's news is even more revolting than that. The current bloodbath is Gaza is a desecration of the Holy Land as well as one of the worst human rights catastrophes of the last fifty years. We want the zionist regime dismantled - utterly so. Christians and Muslims have dwelt in the Holy Land together in peace and harmony for at least half a millenium and we would like to do so again. We all know when the trouble started: it started when the zionists showed up. And it will not end until they are gone.

Adam K

First off, are you actually saying that the media in the US has a conservative Bias? Funny stuff.

I will answer your questions as a Christian. Without lying I might ad. For the most part, this can be summed up rather easily. The jews are God's chosen people according to the Bible.

1. Even Jesus acted in defense of the temple when he realized it had been turned into a market place. He flipped over tables and lashed out in anger. Jesus may have been a great sign of human compassion, but he was also willing act in defense.

2. The injured man on the road didn't launch thousands of rockets into Israel...Hamas can hardly be compared to the injured man.

3. This "hatred" is news to me. I'll have to read up on that, so no comment there. You win that one.

4. That's a touch one. The Jew's are God's chosen people, yet the reject his Son, Jesus. As of now, I say the jew does not go to heaven. All the more reason to support them. If they live, they'll have more time to accept Jesus then, won't they?

5. I don't know of anybody who bases their support on the prophesy. Keep in mind, many Christians don't believe in that prophecy, including catholics. Most of my support is based upon the political issues.

There ya go. As I said, little of my support is based on religion. But since you asked for it, there it is.

wider scope

my support of Israel is not based upon religion so I cannot answer your questions bc they are simply irrelevant to the problem in my mind - though yes, i am a Christian.

however, I am glad you openly focus upon religion when addressing the Israeli problem bc it confirms that for you, this is where your own problem with Israel emanates from, confirming in my mind that this is a Arab-west issue not a Arab-Israeli issue.

as such, you give me no other option but to support Israel, just as I would support any ppl's right to withstand sharia law and live free of the rule of radical islam - even my own.

thank you

Ah. You don't scare me a bit.
The only point you are making here is how little you know about God in general and Christianity specifically.
Godless people can't understand the things of God. Why are you trying or is this just another one of your feeble attempts to bolster your own lack of self worth?

Annt Hu DeShalit

1. Jesus would condemn the cynical Muslims who use children as human shields.

2. The Good Samaritan first and foremost would protect his own family from wanton Muslim terror.

3. Jews understand who Jesus was, where he came from and what he preached.

4. Good Jews will indeed go to heaven.

5. Not interested in getting into long theological discussions. There are more important issues. Such as the fact that the terrorist "government" of Gaza marked the Christmas season by passing a Shari' a criminal code for the Palestinian Authority. Among other things, it legalizes crucifixion.

Hamas's endorsement of nailing enemies of Islam to crosses came at the same time it renewed its jihad. Here, too, Hamas wanted to make sure that Christians didn't feel neglected as its fighters launched missiles at Jewish day care centers and schools. So on Christmas day, Hamas lobbed a mortar shell at the Erez crossing point into Israel just as a group of Gazan Christians were standing on line waiting to travel to Bethlehem for Christmas.

That led directly to the long-awaited Israeli response. It is hoped that this will finally bring to an end the Muslim terror attacks from Gaza on the civilians of southern Israel.

.

Edg1

You should have paid more attention to your grandfather so you would know exactly what's going on.
1 Jesus would condemn the violence and try to save(educate) the attackers.
2 The Israelis try to minimize collateral deaths in spite of the fact that Hamas uses their own people as human shields.
3 Most Jews have no opinion about Mary and barely deal with Jesus. They stick with the Torah.
4 Who goes to heaven is up to God. Jesus said"I am the way the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me."
5 I support Israel because they need it. They are the defenders and that land is all theirs from ancient times.

BTW the coverage is all bleeding hearts for Hamas. All we hear about is "innocent civilians" all day long with no proof at all.Zero evidence to prove what was in their hearts or any reason why they were at the site of the rocket launchers. To them EVERY dead there is "innocent".

Cube

I do agree with what you are saying.

The US coverage is always going to make Israel out to be the good side...

They're leaders should be convicted for their war crimes they have carried out this month..

However you look at it... no matter what your religion or race, Israel is doing the wrong thing.

Killing innocent civilians, hoping that the hamas are hiding in between... and attacking a UN school.

Sorry I'm not answering your numbered questions (im not religious.. i just have a strong view on this issue right now)

Sabrina

Because they are genuine people who know what's right and what's wrong.... simple as that!
They aren't about to sypathize for the hamas who believe in killing all those who don't support them.
SERIOUSLY!!!
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
The Israelis warn the palestinians b4 they bomb and tell them to get out with in 30 min.
While hamas at most only gives them a 15 SECOND warning...(if lucky)...
The Isrealis only want to bomb the areas with all the rockets, with no intensions to kill civilians, while Hamas has no value for life and bombs wrecklessly killing civilans on purpose!

1. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
What did he have to say about Roman oppression.
Love thine enemy.

2. By aiding the wounded Gaza after the cancer is removed. It's too soon.

3. Being friends with Jews and Israel's who do not feel the hate you have and allowing for the fact they are Jewish and God uses them as He will. Not how I do. Show me in the bible where man was sent to save the Jew. Israel is not the bride. Never was meant to be.

4. The Whole bible is just a commentary on John 3:16 Add 17 to complete it.
That;s the easy way out. I like it . It works for me. Thank you Jesus.
If you know your bible at all you know the Jews will indeed inherit the world and will serve God on Mt.Zion. While Jesus reigns in New Jerusalem. Many Jews have lived by the law and their belief in the prophesies. They will be there. Many will rule under God from Jerusalem for 1000 years. Heaven isn't until after that.
Some Jews will go to heaven some will burn.
How about your family?

5. My support of Israel is based on God's word to bless Israel and be blessed. It's very selfish of me I know. Obeying God is always the best way. I am in no hurry for the end times as you say. The world will not end.
For more than forty years I have watched the signs and I see them coming true now. The timing is right and everything fits. Still I could be wrong and hope I am.
I have twelve grand kids from 1yr to 20. I would like to see them have a better life than I gave their parents. I'm not ready to be taken up.
Still God's will be done.

6. Just because your granddaddy was a preacher and you did the read the bible in a year
program does not make you either a Christian , Bible scholor or authorized to judge.
I am going to pray for you.
I'll also pray you leave this in R& S where you belong.

nobody

All nations will rise against Israel.And God will fight against the nations. it is written in the scriptures.

Ivri Anokhi

First, I must condemn Duane and his baseless accusation.

He wrote 'In 2001 the "Grand Rabbi" of Jerusalem publicly called for the mass sterilization of all Arabs on earth, wherever they might be and regardless of religion.'

This is a nasty lie and must be refuted. That is in addition to the other false claims made by Duane.

Now to the questions:

1. If Jesus were alive, he certainly would speak out against the Hamas terrorists for attempting to annihilate his people, the Jews.

2. The Good Samaritan would of course protect the Israeli victims of unnecessary Muslim terror.

3. Jews don't much care about Jesus one way or the other.

4. Although we have no way of knowing, I think that observant Jews have a place in heaven.

5. The Israel Travel section is not the forum for such theological speculations. If you are interested in the theological implications of Hamas's actions, please be aware that Hamas recruits and regularly uses children for hostile activities, which have ranged from the carrying out of suicide attacks, to the digging of tunnels and smuggling of weapons.

Such conduct clearly violates express principles of the Laws of Armed Conflict, including express prohibitions against allowing children to take part in hostilities.

Thus, as expressly provided for by Article 77(2) of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflict (1977):
"The Parties to the conflict shall take all feasible measures in order that children who have not attained the age of fifteen years do not take a direct part in hostilities and, in particular, they shall refrain from recruiting them into their armed forcesâ€¦"

Moreover, Article 8(2)(b)(xxvi) of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (1998) lists the following acts as a war crime:
"conscripting or enlisting children under the age of fifteen years into the national armed forces or using them to participate actively in hostilities".

PaperbackWriter JPA

Probably because *most* Christians are reasonable and sane human beings, and they recognise that terrorism is immoral.....

I also think they don't relish the idea of living as 'dhimmis' under sharia law in an Islamic world any more than Jews do, or any non Muslims, frankly.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

gypsy_cat 345

Cav, I concur with Frankie; Roman Catholics (not being fundamentalist scum) do NOT support Israel and its actions against innocent Palestinians. The recent Popes of Roman Catholicism have unilaterally condemned Israel. Neither is Israel supported by Quakers, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any other TRUE Christians who condemn violence and bloodshed. As Duane correctly mentioned, it's the Baptist (and other fundy) subhumans who scream for the blood of Palestinians because of their silly notions that some imaginary "god" gave Israel to the Jews.
While I support an individual's right to worship the deity of their choosing, it all goes down the toilet when it's THEIR indoctrinations that determine (re: Bush) our foreign policy. What utter bullsh!t. Religion has no more place in politics than the color of the toilet paper our senators' wipes their collective @sses with.
Though I have no problems with peace-loving Christians, I remain happy to be a Pagan in order that my brain isn't clouded by all the religious mumbo-jumbo.

Edit to Sabrina: Aaaaaand---just where are those Palestinians supposed to GO in thirty minutes, since you Izzies have sealed up the borders? Get REAL, Sh!t-for-Brains.

Jurgen

That's just fundies and their a bunch of nut cases. As exemplified by their worship of the "israeli" regime.

frankie

I'm Catholic and I don't support Israel at all...it's against Jewish belief for one thing, and I think that Israel is committing horrible sins against God and the Palestinian people.

I think it's mainly Protestant fundamentalists who support Israel, god knows why...and there are certainly enough of them

dingo60

1. If Jesus/God were alive today, he would be aware of the background to the entire problem. He would therefore be in full agreement with the Israelis and not see it as onesided whilst sympathising with anyone in Gaza who could be termed an innocent. He would give praise for supplying the Gazans water, power, food, clothing, medicines and other support, even though those same people had been trying to slaughter the Israeli people.

2. For many many years, Israel, as the Samaritan, has given support to Gaza, as the injured man,, and has done all that has been required of it in giving the land back that they won in a war, removing all of their countrymen from the land and giving support in the way of goods and services. It means that through helping another person who, although they are your enemy, that person will no longer bite the hand that feeds it. However that can only be said about humans and not wild animals.

3. Absolutely would not call that fact as you have done. I cannot give you an answer to this as I believe that it so totally false for you to believe that. I think that you the poster, have been deliberately lied to by you extremely biased religious instructors. I also believe you have merely posted that in order to create trouble. That whole question deserves no more time wasted on it as it is just an uneducated rant.

4. He that belief in me will have everlasting life - is the criteria. Believe in God is sufficient. Those who refuse to repent of their sins will go to hell. Yes of course the Jews will go to Heaven, they believe in God. The God of the Jews is the same God as that of the Christians. They just have different ways of getting to the same place.

5. My support of Israel has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I believe that historically, the Israelis have the right to live where they do. The only safe way they can live is to have a nation to protect them. They do not get any protection under muslim rule and in fact are severely discriminated against and slaughtered and unable to practice their faith under oppressive muslim rule.

I also believe that they are the bastion and stronghold which is holding Islam at bay. If Israel falls to the muslims, then things are going to get extremely tough for Christians and the West. The stated aim of Islam is to destroy first the Jews, then the Christians. That's not just destroy the religion, that's destroy any people who identify as of Jewish blood. Is it any wonder then that during WW2, Muslim leaders assisted in the Holocaust (which is another reason muslim's mostly deny the Holocaust ever happened).

Islam divides the world into two parts, the world of Islam (dar al Islam) and the World of War (dar al Harb) and btw thats all of us that are not muslims. Our fate is to either convert to Islam or die if islam was to defeat us.

I cannot and will not live under muslim rule and therefore I support Israel who is fighting a war for the rest of the non-muslim countries and the sooner we started to realise that, the better off we will all be.

PS and if my Biblical references aren't too brilliant, don't blame the Christians. I happen to be an atheist and I'm trying to remember early childhood stuff.

Samsooma The Madruba

95% of Christian Americans support Israel.
Since the call of Abram, every covenant that God has made for the benefit of mankind was made with an Israelite.
Because God does not break covenant! (Psalm 89: 30-37).
It is written "When the Lord shall build up Zion, he shall appear in his glory. . . To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, and his praise in Jerusalem; when the people are gathered together, and the kingdoms, to serve the Lord. " (Psalm 102: 16-22).

___

we support it for many reasons. Mostly because we see for ourselves when we travel there that it isn't this crazy evil place people like to lie and say it is.

Secondly, most Christians identify with the liberal humanistic ideals of Israel. Its a relatively young and troubled democratic nation trying to make it in a bad neighborhood.

The US wasn't any better when it was new. It had problems. Hopefully Israel can overcome its problems and grow to be as good as the US.

Anyhow, LOL, what I was going to add is the Evangelical people in the USA would support Israel no matter what.

This proves 2 things.

1) That they do indeed blindly support Israel

2) that the israel lobby in America is actually never going to change their minds either way.. is a waste of money trying to change these people's minds.

American Christians just identify with Israel and its ideals and morals..

Sorry I didn't know I was supposed to do the #'s. LOL

Leave them alone we need the money to clean up the mess.

Arieh

The Israelis are the protectors of the Christian holy sites. If the Muslims were in control all these places would be destroyed, just like the Taliban did in Afghanistan. That's the reality of the situation, not something taken from a hypothetical testament written centuries ago that was not meant to be taken literally. And let me tell you, you are onefuckedup individual if you believe all theshit you have written. (Talking about #3 of your diatribe.)

Frankie: Just saw your post. Of course the Catholic Church hates the Jews. Do you know anything about the history of your religion? If you did, you might not be so anti-semetic. May I recommend the book or the DVD called "Constantine's Sword". But I doubt you are open minded enough to read/view it.

Since when do Jews hate Jesus? I'll tell you when. When that racist prick Mel Gibson made that fanstasy flick called "The Passion", that's when. Pure fantasy. Do either of you even know any Jews?

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