Why do some Jews say Messianic jews are Christians?

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grammadebbie50

Messianic Jews are Christians but they are still Jewish. The term is descriptive of a Jew who believes that Yeshua (Jesus) is the messiah.
While many orthodox Jews would like to strip messianic Jews of their Jewishness it is not their right to do so.

There is no such thing as an ex-Jew--only a Jew who has chosen to believe that the very Jewish Jesus is the one.
As an example of the inequity of it all take a look at Jews who are atheists--no matter what--they are still considered Jewish.

Further more--Christianity has her roots in Judaism. Without that the gentiles would still be adrift.

Jewish Girl

The idea of a "Messianic Jew"/ "Christian Jew"/"Jew for Jesus" is just as absurd, if not more than a Messianic Muslim or a Muslim Christian. Why not just call someone a Messianic Muslim Jew?

"Messianic Jews" are CHRISTIANS, they are a missionary group started in order to convert Jews.

We believe in heaven, we don't believe in hell because it's not a part of Judaism.

Edit - Kevin...its one year in Gehenom, Gehenom is not hell though, it's a totally different concept.

Mark S, JPAA

Let me be really clear: “Messianic Jews”, “Jews for Jesus”, etc., are **not** Jewish. Period. They are Christians, many of whom, under false pretenses, aggressively seek to convert Jews and descendants of intermarriage to Christianity in a way that many of us find invasive, disrespectful, and anti-Semitic.

Before I even get to what Jewish law says about these impostors, consider this: not only does every Jewish organization completely reject them as Jewish, but so do a fair number of Christian groups (see links 2-4 below).
If no Jew thinks that you’re Jewish, and even some Christians don’t, then how can you possibly think that you are? And if one thinks that this rejection is a recent phenomenon, think again! Even St. Ignatius, of the 2nd century, felt the same way! In his Epistle to the Magnesians he wrote:

“Never allow yourselves to be led astray by false teachings and antiquated and useless fables. Nothing of any use can be got from them. If we are still living in the practice of Judaism, it is an admission that we have failed to receive the gift of grace…To profess Jesus Christ while continuing to follow Jewish customs ***is an absurdity***…[L]et us learn to live like Christians. To profess any other name but that is to be lost to God…For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism.”

And now for what **we** say:

Most Jewish scholars agree that you cannot convert away from Judaism (there are a minority who say you can convert away). However, this by no means implies that a Jew who joins another religion has the same standing as a Jew who has remained Jewish. A Jew who practices another religion, whether it be Christianity (in any of its forms, including Messianic "Judaism"), Islam or anything else, is known as an "apostate." An apostate is someone who has removed themselves from the Jewish people by joining another faith. The apostate cannot be buried in a Jewish cemetery. Nor can the apostate be counted for a minyan, the minimum of ten adult Jews (or adult Jewish men, depending on one's denomination) needed for saying certain prayers. For nearly all practical purposes, they have the same status in the Jewish community as non-Jews. The only difference is that they do not have to undergo a full conversion to rejoin the Jewish community, though there is a process known as "Teshuvah" that they must go through to come back to the Jewish community with full Jewish status.

So, once we delve into Jewish law we see that a Jew who joins another religion, though still Jewish, has ostensibly the status of a non-Jew and is no longer able to participate as a full member of the Jewish community. The apostate has the weakest of all grasps to their Jewish identity, they are Jewish by birth but otherwise have no position in the Jewish community.

This then brings us to a discussion on the difference between "doing Jewish" and "being Jewish." By "doing Jewish", I am referring to someone who is actually practicing Jewish beliefs and laws. By "being Jewish", I mean someone who has been born Jewish. Now, there are many people who are born Jewish but are not practicing Judaism. For instance, if a Jewish person murders a family, the Jewish person may be "born Jewish" but certainly was not "doing Jewish" as murder is a violation of the Ten Commandments.

Similarly, we can see examples of this in the Jewish Bible. The prime example of this would be the Jews who worshipped the Golden Calf at Mount Sinai. These individuals were unquestionably Jewish by their birth, thus we can argue that they were "being Jewish." However, were they "doing Jewish?" The Bible is quite clear that these individuals, though born Jewish, were not practicing Judaism. The worship of the Golden Calf, though it was a monotheistic form of worship, was clearly a violation of the Biblical law regarding the making of idols. Thus, they were not "doing Jewish." Similarly, in the Prophets we see countless reprimands of people who were undeniably Jewish by birth, but had entered into apostasy by worshipping gods such as Baal and Ashtoret. They were not "doing Jewish" but "doing pagan" and had violated the very underpinning of Judaism. That they were "being Jewish" by their birth was clearly not sufficient. One must also "do Jewish" in their actions.

Along the same lines, many of Jesus' original followers were unquestionably born Jewish. However, by adopting non-Jewish beliefs, such as thinking that Jesus was a god (a violation of several places in the Jewish Bible, Numbers 23:19 and Hoshea 11:9 provide a few examples of this), were no longer "doing Jewish." The same is true for individuals in the Messianic movement today. The Messianic movement was created by Christianity, and its beliefs and values reflect Christianity. By practicing Messianic "Judaism", the individual who was "born Jewish" is no longer "doing Jewish." They have removed themselves from the Jewish community by their practice and beliefs. Unfortunately, too few of these individuals have an understanding of the difference between "being Jewish" and "doing Jewish", mistakenly believing that they can both believe in Jesus and still have the same status in Jewish community as before. They not only have lost status, but also have lost the practice of Judaism. As has been pointed out in the Talmud, the emphasis for us is on the action, the "doing Jewish.

This is taken from the reference section of the first link:

1. "There is virtual unanimity across all denominations (of Judaism) that Jews for Jesus are not Jewish." (Kaplan, Dana Evan. The Cambridge Companion to American Judaism, Cambridge University Press, Aug 15, 2005, pp. 139-140).
2. "For most American Jews, it is acceptable to blend some degree of foreign spiritual elements with Judaism. The one exception is Christianity, which is perceived to be incompatible with any form of Jewishness. Jews for Jesus and other Messianic Jewish groups are thus seen as antithetical to Judaism and are completely rejected by the majority of Jews". (Kaplan, Dana Evan. The Cambridge Companion to American Judaism, Cambridge University Press, Aug 15, 2005, p. 9).
3. Jewish groups:
o "To make the record clear, Jews for Jesus is a Christian missionary organization – period." (last link).
o "Messianic Jewish organizations, such as Jews for Jesus, often refer to their faith as fulfilled Judaism, in that they believe Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies. Although Messianic Judaism claims to be Jewish, and many adherents observe Jewish holidays, most Jews regard Messianic Judaism as deceptive at best, fraudulent at worst. They charge that Messianic Judaism is actually Christianity presenting itself as Judaism." (Balmer, Randall. Encyclopedia of Evangelicalism, Baylor University Press, Nov 2004, p. 448).

kismet

You cannot be Jewish and Xian at the same time, since the two contradict each other.
We Jews believe G-d in ONE, and that He has no blood relatives.
We also believe ALL moral people merit heaven, regardless of their religious beliefs or lack thereof.

Blue Foots™

People who believe that Jesus is the messiah or God by definition IS a Christian.

Jews and Judaism does not.

dandyl

Messianic Judaism is a Christian movement whose adherents believe that Jesus of Nazareth, whom they call Yeshua, is both the resurrected Jewish Messiah and their Divine Savior.

The central characteristic defining the Messianic Jewish movement as Christian, rather than Jewish, is its belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ. This central tenet of belief is seen by the great majority of Christians and Jews as being the defining distinction between the two religions.This is also the opinion of the Supreme Court of Israel regarding immediate and automatic eligibility for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return.

Similarly, Messianic Judaism differs widely from mainstream Christianity in adherents' observation of Jewish Law which is often discouraged in churches.These observances include observing the Jewish Sabbath, abstaining from pork, shellfish, and other foods banned by Jewish law, and observing Jewish holidays.

As of 1993 there were 160,000 adherents of Messianic Judaism in the United States and 350,000 worldwide. As of 2003, there were at least 150 Messianic synagogues in the U.S. and over 400 worldwide. By 2008, the number of Messianics in the United States was around a quarter million. The number of Messianic Jews in Israel is reported to be anywhere between 6,000 and 15,000 members.

Although many Messianic Jews are ethnically Jewish and argue that Messianic Judaism is a sect of Judaism,[13] the various streams of Judaism are unanimous in their rejection of Messianism as a form of Judaism. Christians and Jews consider Messianic Judaism to be a form of Christianity.

Yes, Jews believe in Heaven, just not Hell. There is a purgatory, but basically it is a waiting room to get into Heaven. According to the Jewish religion. The time in purgatory is a maximum of 12 months. Since it would lashon harah to actually suggest that someone would be sentenced to 12 months in purgatory, we only pray for someone's redemption from purgatory for 11 months, because we don't believe that anyone would be so horrible as to have the full sentence.

Anita

Because they are Christians. They are certainly not recognised as real Jews, and I'm sure most Jews agree that Messianic Jews are a Christian 'sect' that aims to mislead Jews or possible converts to Judaism into accepting Jesus Christ as Messiah. Anyone who believes in the divinity of, and follows Jesus Christ = Christian.

Judaism says NOTHING about Jesus Christ- he is as significant in Judaism as Mohammad is in Christianity- in other words *not at all*.

As for heaven and hell, Judaism simply doesn't have the hell concept. Hell was a concept invented by Christianity. Here is an interesting article on this:

http://englishatheist.org/indexz26.shtml

The angels have the Arc Light.

Messianics believe in Jesus. Jews don't.

It's that simple.

Phoenix - under the pear tree

It's not SOME Jews - its ALL Jews.

You are a Jew if you were born to a Jewish mother or if you convert.

90% of those who claim the title of "messianic Jew" did neither.

The other 10% are apostates - and they violate Jewish law every single time they claim to speak for Jews or Judaism.

KNAYA Argentino Errante

So that it is not any outline of doubts: thus called " Jews mesiánicos" (or any other denominativo that implies belief in the divinity of Ieshu de Nazaret, or in its roll as mashiaj) THEY ARE NOT JEWISH. If somebody flame to the apple - banana, for that reason it stops being apple? And the orange, she will be some of the two? Those that being been born Jewish, or turned to such, but that is adept to Ieshu, they are not part in MINIMUM of the Judaism. Perhaps they are a Christian group, perhaps no, but that is not of concern of the Judaism. What if is incumbent on to the Judaism (to its laws, their sense, its essence, its town) it is emphatically to repeat, that any person who believes in otro/s dios/es, or who believes in (or adores a) beings which they intervene in the relation of the person with God, are idolatrous (from the unique Jewish point of view), therefore, IS NOT JEWISH. And they are not " judíos" those that him " quitan" the condition of such to these idolaters, but their own actions and manifest thoughts. The one that being be Jewish, but separated from the unique possible way within the Judaism in which to God it talks about (a Unique God, without intermediaries), and therefore it stopped being Jewish; at the moment that does teshuvá (that returns God integrally, regrets loyally) reassumes its condition like Jew. This means that if for example somebody era of profession orthodox rabbi, were called Moishe Shaul Rabinovich Levinski horseradish tree Israel Yehudá hacohen, its grandfathers was great rabbi, its father an erudite Jew orthodox in Torá and Talmud, her wife a good Jewish housewife, will be father of 14 children who use kipá and speak idish, continues expressing itself like Jew, BUT, believes in Ieshu (in anyone of her Christian papers, or God or mashiaj- she will be called as is called, she will have had the profession that had, he will be familiar of who is, she will do what does; but, HE IS NOT JEWISH.
The Christians - Jew-messianic exist who have the hypocritical impudence (or one extreme naivete added to an enormous ignorance) to affirm that they do not announce the divinity of Ieshu, but its messianism. Tests that Ieshu was not mashiaj he has numerous, can read some of them in other articles (listed at the end of this article). But, although outside (THING THAT IS NOT CERTAIN) from the same moment that said: (Book of Juan chapter 14 in its verses 6 and 7): " Jesus said to him: - I am I walk, the truth and the life; nobody comes to the Father but by me. If you knew me, also Father you would know; and you know from now on it and there are visto." It put itself by outside the Judaism, because he transformed himself into intercessor before God, in unique way towards God, unique knowledge of God. And this, is of the most flagrant idolatries (egolatría idolatrous if so), besides being completely in opposition to the Torá (and we know that the one that denies although is a letter of the Torá, having be Jewish stops, it being), because the Torá (in its extensive sense) clearly express: ' ' (3) you will not have another Elohim in front of mí." Shemot/Exodus 20

so-called messianic jews believe that jesus was the christ.
anyone who believes in jesus christ is a christian. by definition.
and anyone who believes in jesus christ is NOT jewish, by definition.

jewish people do believe in an afterlife, but it's not reward or punishment for sins in this life, we don't believe in existential sin in that way. we believe in right and wrong, of course, and we try to correct our mistakes and do good, but we don't believe in original sin or in condemnation to hell.

and the more important point is that we emphasize THIS lifetime, doing the best we can with it. we don't worry about the afterlife and we don't do anything in this life in order to get a reward in the next life.

hope that helps.

♥Tom♥ (I'm a Girl)

they believe in Jesus, which to normal jews is a BIG no-no, Get what i'm saying. We believe in the Garden of Eden (which is where everyone goes it is similar to heaven)

June D

Well, everytime I see a question with the term Messianic Jew there are the assorted extremely long, long, answers all about how Messianic Jews are not Jews. But you did not ask about that. Why do some Jews say Messianic Jews are Christians? Because they are. If you are defining Christian as followers of the Christ. If you mean Nazi, no, their not. But that is why unfortunately, some Messianic Jews refuse to acknowledge they are Christians. Because what you mean by "Christian" and what I mean by "Christian" is a whole lot like people argueing about whom is, and whom is not, a Jew. Christ just means (to everyone) a, or, the Messiah. And that is where the word Messianic comes from. It means exactly the same thing as Christian only in the greek form, while Messianic comes from the Hebrew form, one who follows the Messiah. Now, there actually is a very small group of Chasidic Jews who could be referred to as Messianic because they are all into the Old Covenant references of Messiah type doctrines. Not that they recognized the Messiah, or messiahs, as having come already. But they study up on Scriptural referances of him etc. But I don't know anyone who uses that term for them. Messianic Judaism (whether people want to scream about them using those terms to identify themselves, or not) takes its name from the belief of theirs that true Christ following was/is a continuation of Judaism. And indeed a whole lot of Christian believe the same. All the original Believers did. We got Messianic Jews because God brought in in recent decades lots of Jews into trusting in Jesus (more often called by the Hebrew form of Yeshua or like spellings) as the Messiah. It was sortly after the 2nd Temple was destroyed that the newly formed leaders of the remaining Jews who had not accepted Yeshua decided to make it a doctrine that Jews who accepted Jesus would not longer be accepted by them as Jews. And they're still doing it today. To compound that social fracture, the Roman Catholics so like that doctrine they incorporated it into their system also. Then, they invented an alternate Sabbath too. In recent decades many Jewish persons have come to understand Jesus was/is their Messiah yet refused to give up their cultural heritage and a lot of its customs. More than that, they refused to identify themselves as non-Jews. The more they got away with not assimilating into pagan customs as so many Christians have (most by being born into it) the more non-Jewish persons noticed they often had gems of truth the non-jewish persons had never noticed in Scripture. A whole resurgence of discovering what had been lost happened. And with it, many factions. Just as what happened when the first protestors against Catholicism began to stand up and get away with returning to the faith that Jesus brought, and left for us all. They were the first Protestants. By implication Christians are gentiles and Messianics are into the Hebrew side of things. But really neither should deny being the other.

Chedvah

Alright first off there are three types of people in Messianic Christianity/Judaism.

There are actual Jewish people who converted to the faith because they believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

Then there are people who are interfaith couples (i.e. a Jewish spouse and Christian spouse) and their mixed children. They either believe that Jesus is the messiah or they are just in Messianic faith because its a solution for them when it comes to being a interfaith family.

And the third group of people are actual Christians who want to discover the Jewish roots of Christianity. And who feel that Jews need Jesus in order to be saved.

So those who practiced Judaism before they converted are still considered Jewish, its just they are Mushumad (apostates) to Judaism. And remain so, until they decide to come back.

Jews believe in heaven, just not hell since it isnt biblical.

Messianics are not Jews because they reject the Torah and are pagans.

David

My guess would be that the Messianic Jews are the ones who accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah and the others are still waiting for his arrival and rejected Jesus Christ as the Savior. I'm not sure about the heaven and hell part though.

Kevin S

Judaism believes in Heaven, but I believe you don't spend an eternal life in hell. I believe it's 1 year right?

In the near future many Jews will turn to Jesus as the Messiah. They are a select number and will have one purpose and that won't be conversion.
Christians converts today are not in that bunch and shouldn't claim the name. They should stand up and be counted as Christians and Israeli.
They are pretentious and self deluded.
Of course you can't say I love Jesus in Israel without being accused of cornering kids on corners and changing their whole lives in a few seconds. Scary people.
Every one is so worried about what they want to be and ignore what Gods wants for them.
There is one God. There is one human race.
Man sit up the divides.

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