If foreigners yell "Free Tibet!" and "Free Taiwan!", should Chinese yell "Free Hawaii!" and "Free Fiji!"?

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lucy

Long Live GANDHI !!!!

Ich liebe Tokio Hotel

I don't actually get it.
Is it a permission or threat?
You sound ridiculous comparing Tibet with Hawaii and Fiji.
It's a known fact that Tibet was occupied against the wishes of Tibetans in 1959 and ever since they have been persecuted. Nowhere you mention are such issues present.

How can China force them to celebrate Logsar, the Tibetan New Year, against their wishes?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-tibet-newyear23-2009feb23,0,2367504.story

The plain truth is that you are forcing yourself on Tibetans. You rewrite your history to justify your claims over a land that was never yours in the first place. You try to decimate their population by inhabiting Han Chinese in Tibet. If you could not win Tibetan's heart in 50 years, it's a shame on you. Just shows the callousness of your intentions.

Also you tried to name this Logsar as "Serf Emancipation Day" to suit your false propaganda. I wonder what are you going to name "4th June Tinanmen Massacre Day"? 20th anniversary of that fateful day is fast approaching. What preparations have you done for that?

#Elena#
Tibet has no similarity with Ireland. Because the problems in Ireland have been sorted out more or less through negotiations, only if you cared to look at Northern Ireland sovereignty referendum, 1973
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_sovereignty_referendum,_1973

98.9% of the citizens of Northern Ireland voted in favor of being part of United Kingdom.

But what of Tibet? Have you the guts to take a poll among the original inhabitants of Tibet. You don't because you know that they will vote for a resounding "NO".

So before comparing the things do make sure what you are comparing. I don't even want to comment on your diversions of spitting on table and toilets. Please remove your ignorance before trying to spread the light of your knowledge.

EDIT #2 @Elena
I see that you came back to check up but instead of accepting your stupidity of comparing Ireland situation with that in Tibet you try to target each and everybody who has answered.

Your verbal duel is not going to win the case for you. Yours is a silly proposition that will not be laughed at by the world community.

I pointed out your gross ignorance of the ground situation in Northern Ireland but you didn't even accept your mistake.

Americans and Australians definitely made mistakes in the past but they were brave enough to accept the mistakes and take all the corrective measures that were humanely possible.

They didn't distort history like China is doing to make its claim over Tibet. They don't persecute native inhabitants like you do in Tibet.

They don't force the natives for Rain dance or other such rituals against their will.

The natives there are as much free as anybody and foreigners are not restricted to visit there unlike you do in Tibet. And the reason a lot of restrictions have been put is clear enough to anybody. Tibetans have been forced into Chinese subjugation against their will.

I hope you will be able to see the silliness of your proposition.

Daniel v 8.33

Hi Elena
I thought you were a laowai (foreigner) yourself.

Anyway, your logic won't sell outside China. Tibet certainly has many issues. Suppression of ethnic Tibetans has not gone un-noticed even if China tries to hide it. No comparison with the other cases you cite.

Also, it's too easy to say something an internal affair and put under carpet. And why did you forget about Uyghur region? China could not win their hearts even though they have occupied it for 60 years.

@Elena
Sorry that I could not check with the updates because I won't break my sabbath. In fact I was expecting your verbal rant, just didn't know that it will grow this big :P

There are no issues in Ireland as has been pointed out by one of the posters, only if you cared to check that before posting your comment. Yelling "Free Ireland" is only going to prove your utter foolishness. It means you are crying just for the sake of it. Got it Elena (wai-guo-ren) ?

Lobsang Rawang Rangzen

So is this your pathetic attempt to justify China's illegal & repressive occupation of Tibet ?
Excuse you, because quiet frankly we Tibetan never asked for "Liberation" from what you WISH the world to believe as "Serfdom" lives or "from Western imperialism".

"It's obvious that such idea as "Free Australia!" seems very fair towards native Australians whose language is ignored and whose cultural needs are neglected. (and i'm not even hinting about "Free America!")"

- The treatment of ABORIGINES has been very brutal, let me say that. The treatment of TIBETANS People & our country TIBET by CHINESE GOV'T has certainly EXCEEDED The level of Injustice in the History, as being a Tibetan, I Can tell you this from my own Life's experience.

Again and Again, How does someone else's forefathers past CRIMINAL History Gives YOU THE RIGHT to COMMIT THOSE CRIME?
More over, HOW DOES THAT STRIP AWAY THEIR RIGHT AS A LIVING BEING TO STAND UP FOR OPPRESSED PEOPLE? If anything They are & they SHOULD BE standing up for the oppressed people because OF THEIR COUNTRY'S CRIMINAL History against the Native people of the land.

I WILL TELL IN YOUR FACE !
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF SUCH STATEMENT !
HOW THE HELL DOES ANOTHER COUNTRY'S PAST JUSTIFY YOUR CURRENT SHAMEFUL CRIMINAL ACTION ?

We Tibetan people, our Country have been oppressed for more than 50 Years ! We have been imprisoned, tortured, out culture being strategically assimilated, Our way of live being forcefully replaced & it Still continues....
and the sad part of this is that, some one like you "feels the need" to be "Nationalistic" or "Patriotic" and defend China's 50 + years of SHAMEFUL, GENOCIDAL RECORD

Mr Hex Vision

You know the majority of people living in Hawalli are asians not whites. I'm sure if they really cared about Hawaii being free then they should vote for the Hawaiians to regain there freedom.

Tibetians on the other hand cannot vote for what happens to there land.

As for the differences between Tibet, Hawaii, Australia, before 1951 there where very few, or even maybe even zero non-Tibetan Chinese people who had lived there complete lifes in Tibet. This is something the Tibetans now about yet the Chinese seem don't, yet Tibetans don't have a say in this. Hawalli, Australia, Fiji have had millions of people who have lived there entire lives there, some are 10, 12 or even 20th generation who are naturalised to that country. But if we going to play the "You too card" why not free China back to the pre-first emporor days.

Edit:

Blinking heck.......

If we going to play the blame game
I think China should say sorry for there 1000 year on/off brutal rule parts of Vietnam and the forced assimilation of it. Then it has done it that then Europe will follow Chinas lead and see the error of its ways and say sorry for its shameful 200 years in China.

As for the 1989 you are so wrong, it was not students and kids that just went to the square to protest. It was soldiers, workers, parents, mums and the average Chinese person. This is want made the 1989 riots bad, the government could control the students easy but they had no idea how to control the normal public that was protesting against them as well.

mongbei

Chinese should not yell 'Free Hawaii' just because foreigners are shouting 'Free Tibet'. They should be able to shout 'Free Hawaii' just because they believe that it is the correct thing to do. [by the way, thanks for pointing out that the Hawaii Independence movement].

Human rights do not stop at borders.

Everyone has a responsibility to support the human rights of others.

Himejijo

I am part Irish, Native American and Anglo-Saxon, so I can speak for the Irish and Native American's when I say this, you appear to have the answer to your own question, but is this because of a lack of the ability (or desire) to properly examine the evidence in front of you. You have picked a few national-level crimes committed against humanity, such as the genocide against the people native to North America and the destruction of the native Australians' way of life as if these actions justify China's destructive and hateful actions against the citizens of Tibet. "Might doesn't make right," just because you can force yourself on a smaller or less powerful group of people doesn't mean that it is acceptable in any way.

Did you know that you can yell "free Hawaii!" all you want in Hawaii as long as you don't obstruct other people's rights, but you can't do this in China without fear of losing your life. Do you remember June 5th 1989? I have no doubt that the Chinese man who stood bravely in front of a column of "Chinese" tanks was killed for "disloyalty" to your imperialistic ruler, and perhaps you were told that he was being disloyal to your country or inciting something another, but he was actually fighting for the rights of the common Chinese people. He wasn't harming anyone, but he was killed for standing up for the common people, I can only hope to one day be such a selfless and strong-willed individual.

America has made many mistakes in it's past, and the genocide against the natives was likely the worst, the difference between the US and China now is that we learned from our mistakes while China never will because they won't admit the mistakes in the first place. I bet June 5th 1989 doesn't even exist in China, as if the deletion of a day could undermine the actions of the peaceful demonstrators and the greatest Chinese man to ever live (nameless other than Tankman as far as I know). I know that your country was once a great one that created many of the most important inventions and writings of all time, but this was another time which China has gotten so far from that they are no longer recognizable as the same country.

I can tell from your word choice that you are certain you are right about everything you said, but I'm a psychologist so I know that people seem the most certain of things when they aren't really sure of them, so they decide that one side is right no matter what and they aren't going to examine the evidence on both sides. I'm a Buddhist, and compassion is the most important aspect of all things, but especially government and family life, just because you can strike your child or make him do something doesn't make you right.

You say women with children deserve to live but not children, I don't believe there are women with children in China. Not legal ones anyway, I've been to China, and seen that 2/3 of the children on the playgrounds and in schools are male. I wont do the math, because we've already established that you've deemed it okay to kill your offspring.

MÃ¼ller

This convoluted mindset is not going to add to your credibility. Last time I heard this so called "logic" by some 50 centers. I suppose you know what I say.

As far as I am concerned, you have my permission to "yell" anything you wish. After all it's your own vocal cord that you are exercising, but it will surely not get any credence except from some rogue elements. Instead it will do lot of damage to your own credibility.

You don't have any credibility on the front of human rights anyway!!

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Edit
Elena, I see that you are choosing one answer and trying to just rip it apart, only unsuccessfully. And even if one comes up with a counter-argument, you conveniently decide not to see that because it does not suit your purpose. Even then I will reply back.

Your verbal salvo against me is full of cracks. This is not a language school or poetry session where you can offer similis like painting a house or spitting on table. We are talking about unjust occupation. Just because you occupy someone's house because you had a powerful army doesn't mean that he/she will not protest. The Tibetans are protesting and you call them liars and want everyone to believe you. You are not talking of painting your own house, you are talking of painting Tibet with the blood of Tibetans and obstructing others to see that. Someone here rightly pointed that human rights doesn't end at borders, they should never be.

And as far as spitting is concerned, it's a typical Chinese trait. I heard that you had strict policing in Beijing against this habit of Beijingers, to keep the city clean enough. Please don't spit and litter in Tibet.

RicMon87

I agree with you BUT, there's no tension going on in Hawaii or Fiji. . . in Tibet yes, in Taiwan, kind of. .

Purple Cow

Rather than getting involved in your poor arguments I will just spit out my point of view.

The Tibet issue is a public relations disaster for China.
Even though Dalai Lama has agreed in principle for a genuine autonomy for Tibet within China, you people have been stalling him and all Tibetans and the whole world is watching. Demonizing Dalai Lama may have been successful within China but there are no takers outside of PRC, not even Taiwan, a country which too considers Tibet to be a part of China along with PRC. Tibetan refugees are more willing to stay within the democratic setup of Taiwan than PRC.

In the long run you will have to find a solution of another kind than tanks, threats, oppression and propaganda. They have failed to convince the Tibetans, and I think China knows that.

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Elena S
What are your sources? Forgive my ignorance but I don't know that anyone in present day USA is being forced to celebrate anything against his/her will.
--------------------------------------...
And I am pretty much sure that you don't have any. You will ignore my edit as you have ignored others. These diversionary tactic is the only thing you are expert at.
--------------------------------------...

bkk

If Chinese people wish to shout 'Free Hawaii' etc. they are at liberty to do so even in Honolulu without fear of arrest, torture and a lengthy term of imprisonment or execution. The same as any other citizen of, or visitor to, a free and democratic country. I wonder what would happen if those same Chinese people did that in Beijing?
What would happen to Chinese or Tibetan people that dared to demonstrate or protest for their belief that Tibet should be free, in Beijing?
The solution to the situation in Tibet is very simple.
LET THE TIBETAN PEOPLE CHOOSE THEIR OWN FUTURE.
After all if they are as happy and content as the Chinese Govt. tries to tell the world they are, they will choose to remain governed by their 'liberators'. Wouldn't you agree? And if not what possible reason would you have NOT to?
Tibet is CLOSED to foreigners once again. A Monk has recently been SHOT by the Chinese police for self immolation. Do you really believe that the Tibetan people want to live under the terror of their 'liberators' from Beijing?
Human rights are NOT an 'internal matter' they are UNIVERSAL !

EDIT.
I notice that you have refused to answers any of the points I raised in my answer. I wonder why?
As for my participation in protests and demonstrations I have been involved in many, the largest of which involved over 1 MILLION people. I have NEVER been arrested, I have NEVER been tortured and I have NEVER been imprisoned ! Unlike many people in China who are, as I write this, suffering those fates.
You say I have written nonsense but you do not refute ANY of my points. I think that speaks volumes for the way you try to rationalise your arguement.
Finally I would ask ,are you sure you are not Chinese? as your level of written English betrays the fact that it is not your first language or that your level of education is rather low.
' Let us LEAVE in peace' ?????
'Were Australians asked whether they WANT newcomers or not?'
You use both incorrect words and mixed tenses.
Aren't these charecteristics of Chinglish?
You also seem to be posting VERY early in the morning ( Chinese time ) which suggests to me that you are NOT in China. If you are not aren't you guilty of what you accuse others of? i.e. commenting about China whilst NOT living there?
I guess the personal insults will start very shortly.

EDIT
Having seen your latest edits and noted you have not denied being Chinese as well as your attitude to innocent, peacefull demonstrators being MURDERED. I can only assume that you are, indeed, CHINESE and pretending not to be. Why are you doing that? Are you ashamed of your country and it's treatment of what you claim are it's own people?

Mr. W

sure go ahead, people will think you are crazy, but, go for it!

CensorshipYahoo

People should have a right to express their opinions

Jason

You seem to be diverting off the main track.

"Free Hawai" was yelled on Yahoo Board by one of the members of 50 cents party somewhere around March last year citing an antiwar.com source, a website with dubious distinction of overtly anti-American. If at all this yelling would have helped China in any way to counter the criticism it receives the world over on Tibet issue, they would not be sleeping over it. Don't you think so? If you think otherwise I would say that MSS is filled up with a bunch of political appointments who are not working properly.

carl gin , aka,- j j

u horrible,terrable, sarcastic person
americas cool and honest.and can do no wrong...please don t do that again!.

england, is fair game. go shred them!.

Jonny R

On your comments on the nature of the people who congregated in Tiananmen Square in 1989: (- they were congregating for weeks before June 4th (not June 5th as stated elsewhere)):

"simple and naive kids, students.. nothing but kids ..silly and ignorant" and the justification that tanks be used to crush these "silly kids" because "force can only be stopped by greater force ... Tanks on one square are better than chaos all over the country".

I was in Tiananmen Square in May 1989 and spoke to the students. These were not silly people. They were fervent in their desire for change. There was idealism and hope. I also saw thousands marching to the square along side streets, not just from the universities but from many other institutions. Not just young people, but others coming to support the students. Naive perhaps - but certainly not silly people.

During May '89 I traveled to Shanghai, Wuhan, Chongqing, Chengdu. The same mass demonstrations were occurring in all cities. I walked down a deserted Bund kept clear by soldiers while tens of thousands of people could be seen backed up Nanjing Road, but in Chongqing even members of the army college were marching under a banner.

After Zhao Zi Yang's failed appeal, the force of tanks and guns (by the way, not just in Beijing, but other cities too) was the only solution the government of the time offered the peaceful demonstrators. But this was not 'force against force' - this was force against peace.

Your comments belittle what was a huge nationwide upsurge at that time. I suppose you are not talking from experience.

livinglife22004

So lets see then China INVADES Tibet in 1949 OK by your reasoning then Poland, France and most of Europe should be German then cause who are we to get involved in internal German affairs? Part of China should be under Japanese control as well as most of the South Pacific and the islands of the Pacific.

Your reasoning is flawed because you are saying that Tibet is part of China look at the history and you will see that if anything China is anything but China since half of Asia at one time controlled China including Tibet. China is guilty of war crimes and sadly the world lets china get away with that and human rights violations.

Jerry H

I consider that chinese should yell "free indian".
Norh america is indian, not american, lol.

frozenthronewzz

I agree with you , I never care what those Americans and Europeans say on Tibet.
I'm Chinese.
They never care their past criminal history of conquest. Why should I care their so-called democratic suggestions.

We never surrender on Tibet. They dislike China's government.
also me. But bad government doesn't mean "free tibet".

liyuwc12321

In my opinion, the most difference between northern ireland, Hawaii, and Tibet is that in the case of Tibet, the power to push tibet independence is not come from inside, but from outside.
I often see some report telling how chinese persecute tibetan, but there are 56 minority ethnic groups in china, if chinese people treat any other well, why they only want to persecute tibetan? what benefit chinese people can get from persecution? We cant say chinese persecure tibetan if we are disagree that because american fight against terrorists, and some of them is muslim, therefore we say american persecure muslim.
I can imagine dalai lama and his adherents situation, they live under other nations roof, they are sponsored by somebody, if they stop independence activity, they will be useless, and be kick away. I think they care about themself more than careing about all tibetan people.

EDIT: It is too long to read all arguments on the question, but having read some posts, I find westerners appearently bias for tibetan. I mean, if chinese government is so bad that tibetan have to leave from china, what about people elsewhere in china? you just care about tibetan, dont care about people living elsewhere in china? Or you dont care about any people in china at all, just want to see a separating china? Obviously, if china had a bad government like what you said, the best way is change the government, but not making tibet leave from china. Demonizing how government treating to tibetan may have been successful within those people who never came to china, but it still is the lying. Why are you so devotionally believe every words from western media and dalai lama?

Muhammed

thats why i love chinese people.they are ones who can at least tell usa to stop lies.9/11 was inside job.iraq war for oil.usa is always concerned about human right in iran,china.. usa is always worried about Afghanistan,iraq oil and wealth.usa is more concerned about who is president in iran and who is president in syria or others.they need to stop being like this.i belive things will change when china replaces usa as super power.middle east has hopes on china not to become usa if they become super power.

Chris H

I agree with you,absolutely!

Jenny2pa

I totally agree with you! I don't even know where did "Free Taiwan" come from, but I guess this is the Western stupidity to enhance the animosity towards China. It truly shows how delusional and biased the West can be. First of all, China does not control Taiwan and Tibet has always been a part of China for thousands of years.

BTW, you forgot "Free Puerto Rico", which is also a part of the US. ^_^! I actually know Puerto Ricans who don't want to be controlled by the US. They have their own government, so they certaintly deserve Independence from America.

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