Do you think that the greek church possessing a big property,is helping enough the society?

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Heart of Gold (ELTA) â„¢

Personally, I view the property as money spent unwisely. Instead of an expensive piece of property to be used soley for spreading God's word to those that enter, I think the money would be better spent providing housing for God's children, food for them to eat, and heat to keep them warm. I think that if the church really wanted to reach out to people, most of it's money would be spent helping people without pushing the belief as a requirement for help. If your religion does good things for the sake of doing good things, people are more likely to think good things about it. As it stands now, I think that large properties for any church that isn't being used to house and feed people is a waste.

Alexios Komninos

No, they are "helping" only their big fat bellies, and their "nephews" and "nieces". And the taylors who make their dresses of Imperial Bysantine luxury.

Frank B

I am rather surprised that some among us even imply that the Orthodox Church of Greece does not have the "means" to provide and help those in need.

On a moderate estimate and from valid public sources that I went through, the Orthodox Church of Greece earns several millions of tax-free euros/month from its ~800 buildings that include hotels, shopping centers, smaller shops, building facilities rented to the public state, parking garages and even petrol stations. The Greek Church is one of the greatest share holders of the National Bank of Greece. Just in 1998, the Greek church admitted that the total net income from these activities amounted to 1.4 billion drachmas. Recently, the Greek church formed two companies with their primary aim being to absorb money from the FP6 European framework. Added to this, they promoted a very profitable religious tourism plan: http://www.tovima.gr/print_article.php?e=B&f=15038&m=A04&aa=1
And just before the recent elections, the Greek church received an EU-derived aid of ~30 million euros.

And then its the land that includes even whole islands. And the very annoying fact that the salaries of the clergy are guaranteed by the state for life. Why would people that refrain from any religion or Catholics or Muslims pay their salaries?

Its not clear to me where all this money go really and why these money are really raised. The Greek church defends itself by saying that this is the only way to stay independent and strong. But...for what? To help...us? But who decides I need their help or I want to buy their help? I would love to see how much of my taxes end up to the Greek church. Really, I want to know. Then I can perhaps judge what do I get in return. Faith? That's mine. What's theirs? what is coming truly from the clergy? God?

Perhaps, I am cynical but not for no reason.

I dare to think that the Greek Orthodox Church has certain attributes of a multinational company with broad profitable goals. They sell "God". And occasionally "Greece". What's worse? We buy both. Whats even worse? They hate competitors and the free market. No one else is allowed to sell. And everyone must buy.

Renata

the greek church is absent.And they spend a lot of money for the priests clothes, and for their care, when innocent people not having the means to do a therapy, die without help in the corridors of the public hospitals

Dellarovere

The Greek Church has always been the Great Pretender and Hypocrite of this country. Having obtained enourmous territories and respective privileges from the Ottoman Sultans, verified by "ferman", soon after the new Greek State was founded, claimed a false role and contribution to the maintainance of the ethnic conciousness and the revolution for the eliberation of the nation, obtaining even more preveleges and property by State and private donations.
This enormous property is being managed by the Church, including Monasteries, for the profit of its eminent members and the persons of the family and social circle.
Their welfare activities are very limited, only superficial, and always funded by the believer, who contribute their donation on Sunday masses (Diskos). Or by believers who prepare meals at home and dispose them as "charity" by the Church.
The fact is that the Church demands a protagonist role (and gets it) in every sector or private and public life, without deserving it.
After the recent catastrophic fires the Church did not contribute anything to assist and confort the people who suffered so many losses, and the unimportant amounts disposed are in no way corrisponding to the real fianancial status and power of the Church.
Let's just keep in mind that the cost of a complete bishop's garment with hand made guilded decoration on precious tissues and the rest of its accessories, is equivalent to the cost of furnishing and equipping a whole household.
So, if the Church sent some blankets for the ones who lost their houses, this is only hypocricy and bad taste of humour.

emiliosailez

No established church, including the Greek , has done more than pay lip service (rhetoric) to its tenets and "principles". The churches amass fortunes for their own use. The archbishops are tooled around in Bentleys and generally live opulent life styles. Remember the Banco Ambrosiano scandal in Italy?
Dellanov and Frank are right on the mark.
Interesting to see some rational folks within.

alexlascari

I am a believer, but in general lines I agree with Dellarovere and Frank B.
Religion is not the Church (any Church) and viceversa.

cpinatsi

No, I think the Church is spending money very unevenly. I would like to see them initiating if not funding more charity, and also I would liek to see them spending more money for the conservation of heritage, namely byzantine churches, which is actually in their jurisdiction. However, there are 2 things that can be said in their defense:
1. Not all parishes and churches or monasteries are rich. The Church may have property, but it is not distributed evenly even within the church itself. And sometimes those with the least funds do more work. The rich parishes do luxury work, building superfluous new buildings while the old ones collapse.
2. Some Bishops and Monasteries do spend money on good things, but it's up to them really. And they manage to absorb EU money, that the state is incapable of absorbing, which is such a crime! For example, Eystathios in Sparta does a lot for charity, builds institutions for the elderly, for children with special needs, etc.

ele

not really...but the property of the greek church is mainly books and art I don't see how they could help financially...the greek church could be more involved in matters that concern people (poverty, homeless people etc) and in a more sufficient way...that is closer to their duties...

edit...
I think that the books, icons and so on are well enough were they are - if you like it's the "natural environment" and they should be nowhere else, if you want you can go see them there...
as for the lands I don't think that I see your point again...do you think that those lands should be returned?in this case the lands each one of us owns should be returned as well...it doesn't matter how they got them it's a matter of how they use them...I agree that they could be put away for better use (make guest houses for the homeless or give them for poor to have a small income by agriculture) but it's a matter of the people leading the church...these people are hungry for wealth and power (I know bc my mom is an agiografos and I've seen what's going on from the inside)...the main problem with the Greek church (and any other church if you ask me) is that the leaders are not spiritual and educated enough to make the masses follow...

but why do we stick to the Greek church???would anyone ask the Vatican to give up the fortune they own???

edit...
I agree with you my friend but drastic hanges are not always effective...a rule might work for a little while but when other people take the power they'll find the way to bend it...it's a matter of the state to enforce taxes to the church...and don't forget that church all over the world has done the worst things in the name of jesus and has always had a huge fortune because some people believe without thinking...

zigzag

i totally agree with Frank , Renata and dellarovere..
From all the property of the church, new buildings for the victims of fire could be built, and many people have been rescued from illnesses...
Is it fair?

biohazard

Obviously not. They gave almost nothing for the victims of fire in Greece but this was expectedâ€¦

slaveof12gods

OK ,and once again I have to be the bad person and say that socially and economically the church has done jack! they are starting to remind me more of the Vatican then of what it supposed to represent! it has lost it's value as a humanitarian effort and has crossed over into economic politics! as a normal human being all I can say is
No thanks! the Greek church has mooched off ppl for soooo many years but when it come to give back to the community it is worthless! I am waiting for the day they also request fakelakia! you think I'm harsh? why don't you ask those victims of the fires and see what the church did for them? I'm not harsh ,just speaking the truth!

Christina

No... It is only my opinion

reifguy

Hello dear leonarda ,in a country like Greece ,with 97% on lates polls conducted christian orthodox ,this points to the dominant majority,so no surprise comes when they are well established in revenues and income ,the orthodox chritianity has been well famed for greeks and worldwide they know that its their faith and believe,the income they receive annually from donations ,properties ,,etc....is spent accordingly to a policy they follow ,the exact policy and how its distributed is kind of controversial in figures and dispersion,the one summary i can conclude is that religious factor is way established in Greece ,and the profits ,budget etc is more than 6 zero figures ,where does it go and who is benefitory from it ,i dont know....(many answerers have pointed finger of corruption ,but without facts or proof ,it remains accusations and unsupported ,and in general no system is 100%clean)

manou

Lisa B

Hi Leonarda!

The issue you have raised is a very difficult issue, because religious people and secular people think about it entirely differently. In order not to get people all hung up on facts about Greece, I will use the example of Tibet. Tibet had many rich monasteries before the Chinese invaded it in about 1959. The Tibetan people for the most part supported the wealth of the monasteries, because they felt that this was a way of recognizing the importance of the religion, and also the wealth supported lots of monks and nuns who prayed for everyone, including poor people. Poor people often thought being prayed for (for a good rebirth) was more important than getting material goods.

When the Communist Chinese (who did not believe in religion) invaded Tibet, they destroyed many of the monestaries and took away most of the wealth. Their attitude was that wealth in the hands of a religious organization is "wasted" because it is not used for the people.

There is no good answer to this split of opinion. If you are religious, you will probably support a large cathedral or monastery, and the use of a lot of money to maintain it, because you agree it is a way of serving God, or your particular faith. If you do not believe, you will think it is a big waste, and the assets should be divided among poor people. It all depends on what you view as a worthwhile use of wealth, and that is determined by your beliefs.

carmelo_sabato

Dellarov Hit the nail on the Head since 204 your prime minister gave them 3 1/2 billion EU tax breaks and and Unreturned loans when they Are going to Repair the Greek Temples that They Tore Down !

chrisvoulg1

I would like to see the Church to help more, but in the other hand with due respct I disagree with any one clamoring for any partition of the Church prorety since I cannnot remeber any time in History when the ex-property of the Curch went to people which was really in need of it the examlpes of this missuse abound (Reformation and French & Russian Revolutions).And I cannot help myself no to be deeply suspicious for a attemped land-grab when I see this move to be championed by newspapers belonging to DOL or by Kathimerini, whose propietor is involded in construction schemes or Eleuterotipia

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