Headscarf ban in Turkish universities: removed or maintained?

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Totally Blunt

I am preparing a Buddhist robe. You know, the orange ones? I will attempt to enter a major university in one if ban is removed. Or, how about a shaman kam attire?

Let's talk about freedom?

Pala Remzi

Dear Frank,
you obviously read the social situation of Turkey very clearly there in Greece. YES, I agree with your observation
and I am sure many Turkish participants here will agree with me on that

The ban in universites is currently ON but it's a matter of weeks the legal situation will change

Yes.. Social pressure will occur but not in a few years as you suggested.. it'll be much sooner.

Lady Teacher

I do not deem it necessary to do more than to call attention to the rule in the case of Leyla Şahin and Zeynep Tekin announced by the European Court of Human Rights, and to the additional statement made on the subject by the courts' ruling:

"Imposing limitations on the freedom to wear the head scarf could, therefore, be regarded as meeting a pressing social need by seeking to achieve those two legitimate aims, especially since that religious symbol had taken on political significance in Turkey in recent years,"

"The court did not lose sight of the fact that there were extremist political movements in Turkey which sought to impose on society as a whole their religious symbols and conception of a society founded on religious precepts,".

I entirely share the same thoughts with Arzuhan Doğan Yalçındağ, TÜSİAD Chairwoman:

" We should deal first with our social and economic problems in order to make Turkey a more prosperous society, and in order to give our children a better future. Otherwise, the wind of globalization might strongly drag every one of us to where it goes without regard for our lifestyles,".

" Yes, on the one hand, we have young girls who face difficulties in school because they wear the headscarf. But on the other hand, there are those girls who are forced by their families to wear the headscarf when they turn 15, or those who fear that they will have to wear it because of social pressure within a few years,".

We have so much to learn from the history. Thus, it should never be neglected that just before Constantinopolis conquered by the Ottomans, the Byzantine Council had discussions if the gender of the angels is male or female.

**************************************...

A lifting of the ban on headscarves will jeopardize the rights of women as truelife incidents demonstrate:

Students, who were not fasting in Gaziosmanpasa University (Tokat), were reportedly attacked by the rightist students. Rightist students blockaded the Tasçiftlik Campus of the university and threatened the students who were not fasting. They attacked four students for the same reason on 18 October in a park on Yesilirmak side and threw Bayram Yag into the river. Bayram Yag was wounded after falling down from 4 meters height to a shallow side of the river. Rector of the university Prof. Zehra Seyfikli announced that an investigation was launched against 10 students and the Secretary of Faculty of Economics who divided the canteen into two for fasting and not-fasting students. (Cumhuriyet-TIHV, October 21, 2004)

Orhan Eraslan, the CHP MP for Niğde said: " More than 6000 workers were separated into two categories as worshippers and non-worshippers by İhlas Cargo. Non-worshippers got fired without notice or explanation, and no worker got any golden handshake. "

♥ ☼ ♫ Ibrahim ♫ ☼ ♥

I want the headscarf ban to be maintained, because schools and universities (and all the public places) must remain secularist.
And I think that many people, both women and men, seem to wear headscarves or go to the mosque just for showing off, just because of a kind of social pressure ( especially in certain quarters and certain cities, and even in some turkish neighbouroods of Germany and France).
I want Turkey to remain secularist always and forever...

But I am also very very disappointed by the words written by some friends here, when they call these girls " nut shells" or " no real Turks".

Turkey is a free republic, and everybody can choose any religion (or even atheism), and secularism is really an important moral value...
But anyway, Islam is just a part of our turkish identity, even though some of us don't even believe in Allah/God, and everybody should respect that.
It's also a question of culture, everybody should remember that too...

denyocan

I`ve heard it`s totally free in Iran, and I`m ready to sponsor at least 10 of them on their way to tehran with ONE WAY flight tickets. may them enjoy the genuine freedom in the heaven on mollas.

crazygirl158

This might offend the most but I think headscarfs are Arabic fashion not turkish culture. I mean it is something religiou, but for the Arabic people. It started with the way they got dressed( they wore headscarves to protect their head from the sun) and became some religious signal... some people wear headscarves and open their legs or bellies, what's the point of that???

Leprechaun

Firstly i think, banning things,especially freedom is never a solution and not human.

I can understand the concerns of people who don't cover their heads. They think, one day they might be forced to do and that this is a first step of a bigger plan which might change the lifestyle completely.

But my opinion is, we cannot restrict other's freedom because we are afraid something "might" happen. It is like putting someone in prison because we are afraid he might commit a crime.

If it was not AKP but CHP who proposed to give people freedom to practice their religious needs.

To be open minded is not covering heads or not. It is to accept that there are different views and everyone is free on their actions if they don't restrict others' freedom.

genç türk

Throughout my college studies, I saw girls who wore artificial hair on their headscarfs just to get into the university. First few times I laughed hard about it but then when I really thought about it, I was ashamed of my humanity that I could do nothing against a system that took away a person's dignity who was merely trying to get the education that was funded with her family's tax money. It is always easy to say "Maintain it, so that we remain a modern country, bla bla" it is not that easy to put oneself in these people's shoes, think about what kind of a hard time we give them with these bans.

We must not alienate the very children of this land, but embrace them. I say down with the ban, now.

Any government built on oppression is built on sand. Celebrate the differences and have tolerance, just like our ottoman ancestors did for more than 700 years of world domination.

ev pandası

As a student currently attending a turkish university, I could honestly say that I don't give a damn if there were any girl around me who covers their hair with headscarfs. If they want to come school that way, that's their choice. Actually, ten years from now, it was not a problem if the girls put on headscarves or not. At least that's what my friends say who graduated at 2001.

I really don't mind how people dress-up ( as long as they do dress-up, I would never want some idiot in my campus trying to expose his/her body :P )

As I always say, that headsacrf ban reminds me of a turkish saying;
"Bi deli kuyuya taş atmış, kırk akıllı çıkaramamış.."

" An idiot might drop a marble in a well, but ten wise guys might just not get it out that easy!"

Buket D

There should be a stable ban on headscarves in universities in Turkey, that is NOT what Ataturk would want if he was alive!! He wouldn't be happy.. well it is so sad that there is no more Ataturk!! =((

.:::Niko:::.

It's maintained and I just wanna say something to those who wish to cover their head with that thing called headscarf....the doors are wide open , go somewhere, perhaps Mars? real Turkish people don't like to see them running around like aliens.... what do you think? don't you think that would be a great solution?

Qu'est ce que tu pense?

Religion and school should not mix, in my opinion. If a girl wants to wear the headscarf--fine by me--she can wear it outside of school if she wishes to do so.
There shouldn't be an exception to any religion and those religious people just need to get over it. I don't see religiously-devout children in the U.S. wearing a Jewish yarmulke on their heads or carrying a Bible to school. I don't think a Muslim scarf should be any exception to the religion/school argument, and therefore should not be worn within school.

Irmak

They face difficulties? They only take off it.Is this a difficulty?On the other hand, at present (before the headscarf law), in some universities, students started to make pressure to girls who are open-headed or wears mini-skirt.

This law is so stupid.After that high school girls will want this too.And then primary school, maybe! I go to the high school and there are lots of girls who wear headscarf.If they don't take off it, I'm sure there will be a pressure for the girls like me.Also, it's wrong to bring political and religious symbols to the schools.

Maintained, I hope. Religious nuts that enforce a certain style of hat are pretty ridiculous, as far as I'm concerned. (Not anti-Muslim, because other religions do this as well, Orthodox Judaism for instance, I'm just pro-enlightenment)

gosh

Well done! You divided the Turks into two groups that you expect them to be hostile with each other. You have succeeded in what you set out to do.

You are not the center of the world so try to stop being so egocentric.

'Did you create this account to only answer my question?'------>>> 'Egocentric'

Bix

The 'religious logic' behind the headscarf is that it should prevent men being sexually attracted by seing a woman's hair. I'm against the idea that men should be in a kind of general suspicion that they can't control their sexual desires whenever they see the hair of a woman.

Today, the headscarf is more than this above-mentioned 'protection'. It's the symbol of the political Islam. I don't support this movement because in my opinion, Islam doesn't have any answer how to rule a state in the 21st Century.

However, I'm against this ban because I don't think that it can change the conviction and the attitude of those people. Women in Turkey who don't wear the headscarf don't wear it not because it's forbidden but they don't like the political statement and the whole attitude behind it. That means that the ban's intention can only be the change of the attitude of the people who are in favor of the headscarf. And I think that such a thing is impossible, particularly because of the religious nature of this question.

istanbul bogazi in the Queendom

Maintained at the moment.
School is a place of education, not a show-off place of your religion or personal stuff.
There is a proper way to come to school.
I wouldn't want to share a class with those nut shells.
(21st century i think it is time those girls get busy with science and real things, women of today have much more important problems than their turbans.)

mete

at the moment it is maintained but you are talking about social pressure but you just flew by the legal pressure at the moment,

you are saying that people will get social pressure, well at the moment you are forcing people to take it off, doesnt anyone see that as a form off pressure?

to istanbul bogazi: I'm sure those 'nut shells' wouldnt want to share class with your shallow mind either

wearing a head scarf is not a form of showing off it is a form of practice peculiar to a culture

to Irmak: if it isnt much of a diffuculty to take it off than if there comes a time when you are socially pressured to wear just put it on, is that really difficult?[I hope that you will never be pressured to wear it but belittling their difficulty is not the solution]

to HighT: who are the 'real turkish people', I guess I'm a fake

ՎԱՀԷ

European parliament didn't approve ban on headscarf, because they think it won't change people's mentality. If you use force, society will choose the opposite way.
Idea of hijab (headscarf) - protection of women against men's appeal - seems quite backward, not only is a restriction for women but also gives the idea that women and men always think the bad way about each other.
While I think ban on headscarf is not democratic and not the real meaning of secularism but think that in an improved and modern (and Muslim meanwhile) society there won't be strong will to support headscarf, if we put the symbolic and political aspect aside.
In Iran, headscarf has been a "must" for 27 year, during these years the will in society to use headscarf has strongly decreased, specially that there is force and pressure over it by the government.
Now, back to Turkey:
Those groups that strongly criticize AKP for "Islamizing" Turkey, should answer to this question: Why are they worried that majority of society will choose headscarf by letting it free.
Isn't it true that they had the dominating power in Turkey for years before AKP? Why did they fail to "modernize" the country.
It comes clear that they - at the head of them Kemalists - have failed to establish a Turkey based on Ataturk's views and ideas. Because if they had succeeded, then Turkey would be a country where the idea of secularism and modernity would be at the mind and heart of society, and it (secularism) wouldn't have to be protected by army.
Banning headscarf is not democratic, but if people be educated (generally and equally in country) they can choose how to wear and how to act, themselves.
And the government won't be worried that the country will have a Islamic appearance or not.

-----------
To Istanbul Bogazi:
I didn't speak about civilized or not at all! I said ban on something is not democratic, I didn't say it is uncivilized or so! I think banning - or forcing - is not democratic, do you have argue on it? In Turkey, France, Iran, North Pole, everywhere on world banning these simple things is not democratic.
But I also say that the idea of "being protected by hijab" doesn't seem sound today in 21st century, does it???
BTW, take a look at this:
http://www.iri.org/europe/turkey/pdfs/2007-06-28-Turkey.ppt

It says majority of Turkish people represent themselves as "very religious", it approves that majority of people will choose headscarf (if they want let them do I don't argue on that), so secularists have to keep the ban to hide the pro-Islam face of Turkey, while this is not meaning of secularism, this is actually dictatorship in name of secularism. If they don't want to see headscarf in Turkey, banning is not the way, but modernizing Turkey is the way and educating people based on today's situation in the solution. When they fear of seeing hijab getting popular, it comes clear that they have failed to do that.

♥Barış Awareness♥

The headscarf is much
more then a piece of cloth,
woman should have the right
to wear them if they choose.
The headscarf is a reminder
of the oppression,
cruelty and discrimination
against the women of Turkey.
Forcing them not to wear
it means nothing has changed
for them and only can limit
women from becoming
well-educated. Social pressure
would be the least of my concerns
regarding this issue.

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