How did Greece manage to remain non-muslim when its surrounded by 2 Muslim countries Albania and Turkey?

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Alexios Komninos

The same way that you managed to remain Christian with 1/3 Gypsies and 1/3 Albanians in your territory (Vardarska).

Vasiliki-Βασιλική

Why Turkey managed to remain Muslim when is surrounded by Christians?(Armenia,Greece,Georgia,Cypru...

Why did Albania manage to remain muslim when its surrounded by Christian?(Greece,Montenegro and Fyrom????

Snjezana

I'm Serbian... and i know the history of the turkish occupation..

and i don't know the blonde that commented before me but she Couldn't be more wrong.

Turks took the sons of Christian families to build up their armies.
they forced the daughters of our defeated kings to marry and become the 399039 wife of some prince or sultan in Istanbul..... to ensure loyalty........

those that didn't convert didn't get as good jobs.... had to pay higher taxes.... stuff like that.....

in some regions there are stories of laws that... before a serbian man and serbian woman could be married she was forced to sleep with a turk. so the firstborn child was turkish

and there are sooo many SICK stories of forced conversions during that time.....

but it is a miracle how we... and the Greeks... held on to our religion and our traditions for almost 500 years of the Turkish occupation
it was a dark chapter in the histories of many countries and it just shows our faith.... and our spirit...... we fought and had uprisings so many times... until we united and won..

(p.s. ... no one said anything about christian conversions..... and if you think that Greeks are super nationalists.... you really need to travel more...
it's just that they have More to be proud Of then turks or albanians for example....)

Elaine

Zoi has given you a very good answer, the best here.

David C

Greek civilisation goes back thousands of years, long before Islam was invented by the prophet Mohamed.

Myrina

Christianity came to continue what the ancient Greek civilisation had started.
Christian philosophy suited the Greek way of life and mentality.
Greeks were Christians centuries before Islam appeared.
Moreover, Greeks could never be Muslims.
We have always believed in freedom of expression and freedom and democracy in our way of life.

Charles_N

coz the were downloading the bible faster than the others :-P

Zoi ((Ζωή))

Greeks managed to remain Christians, like many other nations under Ottoman Empire.
Vassiliki has answered to you correctly...

BUT!
1.Christians were paying 14 times more debt to the State, than Muslims!
2. Furthermore, Ottomans used methods to enrich their army and secure their status around their Empire. So, they practised 'paidomazwma', stealing of Christian Boys that were looking healthy, not only Greeks but also Serbians, Bulgarias etc (also true that some poor parents were giving their child on their will ,as they wanted them to have a better life).
3.In 17th century (and later) many Christians,especially Greeks, were forced to convert into Muslims and, as you understand, adopted a Turkish identity and followed later the turkish fate.
In general, Ottoman Empire exercised a politic of Mulsimisation of the Christians, so that they secure their vast empire.

Concluding, many Greeks and Bulgarians and Serbs etc. were converted into Muslims with, but mainly without, their will and under pressure.
THAT'S WHY, MY FRIEND, NOWADAYS' GREEKS AREN'T MIXED UP WITH TURKS, BECAUSE THE ONES WHO WERE MIXED UP WITH TURKS, BECAME TURKS, either because IT WAS MORE CONVENIENT or because they were forced to. AND BECAUSE RELIGION WAS AT THAT TIME ABOVE NATIONS, OTHER CHRISTIANS DIDN'T COUNT THEM AS CO-PATRIOTS AND MEMBERS OF THEIR COMMUNITY ANYMORE.
That was until 1750-1800 let's say, then burst out the idea of nation, during the Era of Enlightment.
Do you understand now why we are not mixed up with Turks? (mixing up with Bulgarians or Albanians is another issue).We are simply the ones that didn't abandone their Christianity
.
I must say though that Ottomans respected christian religion at the first century of their Occupation and till then, they were an Empire just like others in Europe.
The tragic to their fate is that they falled to follow Europe at the Era of Enlightment and this is the turning point you know,Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbians awoke as nations and Ottomans couldn't stop them, so they used force to stabilize their power, when Austrian Empire had earlier the same problem with Hungarians and Kroatians...

Search for proofs for what I've written in European History, study about the importancy of Religion, the awakaning of National Identities, Era of Enlightment and if it was spread through Muslim countries.

Totaly Blunt, you need a correction: your claim about Christians that spread Christianity by force, IS VERY MUCH TRUE, but only if you mean that Eastern Christians chaised pagans in Italy and today's Greece's regions (Athens,Korynth f.ex.), where there was settled for centuries a massiv system of religion(dodekatheum),this didn't happen to Asia Minor f.ex. which was the center of Christianity.
The chaising of pagans had AGAIN political reasons.
But this happened back to 2-3d century,not in 17th cent.
The fact is that Ottomans failled to make 'the step forward', when other people in Europe made it.
Renaissance and Enlightenment that followed each other for 15-18th century didn't have any effect in Ottoman Empire. And if Renaissance was just a cultural 'fainomenon', Enlightenment reformed society, altered the frightened farmer into a citizen with rights and demands.
Ok..About the force that was exercised to Christians:
If you study Greek Folklore Poetry (you know, traditional poems and songs that were constructed by many composers,plain people), you will see what I mean.
One of the most tragic and intense words in folk poetry is 'etourkepsen' (ετούρκεψεν=he became a Turk, that means Muslim).
The changing of christian religion was experienced tragicaly by collective memory and that's why it is stored in this folk songs. :-)
Those people felt that were pressed and of course Ottomans' intention was not to vanish them, they wanted to stabilise their power, that's why there ARE Christians today.

Wish I could read turkish to study th Turkish, Bulgarish etc folk songs, it would be revealing.

@Sjenzana: Yes, in some places of the Ottoman Empire, Christian women were oblighed NOT to have continuing relatioship, but to sleep at the first night of her marriage with the 'pasa' of the region, not just a Turk.You know it in Serbia too??
The point was not to be born a child from the 'pasa', but to cause that Christian men were not marry a vergine woman. It was a method of humiliation and depriving them of feeling proude. But this wasn't in every region.

stan l

I'm not sure but I'm glad they did. Otherwise we would never had had pork souvlaki. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Pork souvlaki.

zoltan

BY practicing safe sex..we mated with our own...unlike the ottaman empire ..which dosent exist any more they all died out NOT practicing safe sex.. but they left behind...a caravansie..of multiply mix of people who call them selves TURKS...what i cant understand is they call thier country secular in relegion..but yet procalim they are true muslims...yet islam prohibets..seculalisim...?????go figure....

Lady S

First of all, Turkey, Albania or any other country has nothing to do with the Greek religion (and the other way around). Just because your neighbours are Muslim, doesn't mean you have to be as well.

Second of all, even though Greece spent 400 years in the Ottoman Empire, Turks let them keep their religion. Isn't that pretty advanced for that time? It can't be said for most Christian countries.

Third of all, Turkey is a secular country nowadays and doesn't have all that Muslim influence. As for Albania, I don't know why everyone thinks that all Albanians are Muslims. According to my information, about 70% are Muslims and 30% are Catholic. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Totally Blunt is totally right. LOL :) Christians made people convert to their religion by force. Turks never did that. Alright, they invaded those countries, but they treated their inhabitants very well. I have to say Turks were much more civilised than any other invaders in history.

Also, I have to say that Greeks consider their religion too important and they show little or no tolerance towards other religions. They are also the most nationalist people I know of. Sorry, guys, but you can't say I'm wrong here.

EDIT: Snježana, I would be interested to see how you guys would manage to be "strong" and keep your religion if they didn't let you. You were allowed to have your churches and practise your religion all you want. If it was the other way around (if Christians occupied Muslims), I'm not sure it would be that way. As a matter of fact, we saw that in Bosnia not a long ago. Also, your little "scary stories" about Turks are just your Serbian propaganda.

Totally Blunt

Greece didn't MANAGE to remain Christian. They were ALLOWED to practice their own faith by the Ottomans, ALLOWED to be governed by their own ecclestiastic organization.

Unlike Eastern Romans, who spread Orthodox Christianity everywhere they went... by FORCE.

Strange, isn't it? Romans FORCE people to abandon their previous religion and nobody complains. Ottomans ALLOW people to remain what they are and everybody whines.

I heard the comment of a Turkish Rum on tv. He was saying, the locals resisted Christianity for a long time, not wanting to abandon their pagan religion, but when they finally accepted, they took it to heart, incorporating pagan practices into new religion.

nakis

becuse greece and christianity is one! many greeks believe that if you are not cristian you are not greek!!!!!!!!

GREEK BARBiiE♥

Zoi gave the perfect answer.

Totally Blunt and especially Lady S couldnt be more wrong. What did the Ottoman Empire ever produce? It has been gone down in history as the most backwards empires. While the West was going through Reinascance and Enlightment, the Ottomans were still living in backwards and couldnt produce anything. Even the Arabs in the Middle who are MUSLIM didnt like them. And the Christians in the Balkans suffered MUCH more than the Muslims. Look at the Greeks under the Ionian islands, where a Turk never stepped foot in there and were under VENETIAN rule the whole time. The Venetians built roads, houses, architecture etc. they didnt kidnap little children, or forced women to sleep with the commanders and didnt slaughter anyone in the name of religion. NOOO Greek every complained about them. In fact the Ionians are very proud being under Venetian influence, even in today's Ionians music and instruments sounds very similar to the Italian one.

GreekLover

albania is christian wtf

Cortophagus

Our Lord and Savior, Satan, always protect us from the non believers and keeps our faith alive.

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