How many people die in armenia genocide in turkey?

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ÕŽÔ±Õ€Ô·

It is estimated around 1.5 million.

300,000 is number of Armenian people massacred during Abdolhamid II ruling era, known as "Hamidian Massacres".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

(if u ask the question in Turkey section don't expect to receive neutral answers. because you will simply get the genaral attitude of Turks on the issue which unfortunately is denial)

@ Keyser:
If you check the international definition of the term 'genoicde', you will see that there is no difference. Besides, not all of the victims died because of forced starvation in deserts. There were huge number of mass-killings.

EDIT:
I strongly agree that number of casualties doesn't matter in genocides.

luckyman

some Armenians were dead because of illness and long train voyages.there were no TGV in that times but still foreigners ran the railways (French)so they are responsible from the casualties.

dingdong

i advice you to learn meaning of genocide first

Totally Blunt

Historians say 300,000 Armenians died, whereas 4,500,000 Muslims in ex-Ottoman lands were subjected to ethnic cleansing. Andrew Mango discusses that the exile policy was based on the fear this ethnic cleansing caused.

Ã‡etin

Hi Tom,

The Concurrent Resolution states that 1.5 million Armenians died between 1915 and 1923 at the hands of the TÃ¼rks.
This figure needs to be questioned because:
(a) it seems grossly exaggerated;
(b) it constitutes the basis of other claim which has come to be wrongly called "Armenian genocide."

How did the Armenians determine that 1.5 million of their race were killed? At the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 the head of their delegation set figure of Armenian losses at 300,000. Then, in the twenties and thirties, after the publication of the "Andonian forgeries", this figure crept up to 800,000, and following World War II it oscillated between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000. By 1989, 1.5 million seems to have become the officially sanctioned number. It is the reliability of this figure that needs to be questioned--first, by reviewing population statistics.

However difficult it may be to establish correct population statistics for an area in war time, especially when there were so many refugees--and so many who never returned to their homes--it is possible to arrive at some valid approximations by examing the available demographic studies. The following figures which give an idea of the size of the Ottoman Armenian population:

The French Yellow Book1,555,000
Encyclopedia Britannica1,500,000
Cotenson (French demographer)1,400,000
Lynch (English demographer)1,345,000
Annual Register (London) 1,056,000

As can be seen the statistical variance between the highest and the lowest figures is small, namely 499,000 (1,555,000 - 1,056,000 = 499,000). If we take the median (499,000 : 2 = 249,500) and add it to the lowest estimate, we get 1,305,500 for the size of the Armenian population. (249,500 + 1,056,000 = 1,305,500). This is almost identical with the Ottoman census,* and with the figure that the American historian Stanford Shaw arrived at--1,294,000--in 1976. Thus because of the smallness of the variance between these estimates calculated by neutral, sometimes anti-Turkish, scholars we can feel justified in saying that there were about 1,305,000 (in rounded figures) Armenians in the Ottoman Empire in 1914. This permits us to draw a first conclusion: given that one cannot kill more people than exist, the Armenians' favorite estimate of 1.5 million "genocided" does not make sense.

But now, let us try to figure how many Armenians might actually have died in the inter-communal war? The figures given at the time are as follows:

Talat PaÅŸa, the supposed perpetrator of the alleged genocide, in his 1918 report to the last Congress of the Union and Progress Party (generally known as the Young TÃ¼rk Party) estimated 300,000

Monsignor Touchet, at the CEuvre d'Orient Congress in 1916 - 500,000 Toynbee in 1918 - 600,000

Boghos Nubar, head of the Armenian Delegation to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919 - 300,000

We must start by admitting that these estimates are mostly guesswork, for there was no way of obtaining correct figures during, or so soon after, the war. In order to arrive at a more dependable figure we need to make some calculations.

At the Paris Peace Conference Boghos Nubar and his Armenian Delegation claimed that 280,000 of his people remained in the Ottoman Empire, while 700,000 emigrated. If these figures are correct, then we must conclude that out of a population of 1,305,000 Armenians, 325,000 died during the inter-communal war. (1,305,000-280,000 - 700,000 = 325,000).

But this low figure is not supported by recent findings which indicate that no more than 80,000 Armenians (not 280,000) had remained in TÃ¼rkiye right after the war. This raises a question which is: Why did the Armenians claim that so many of their people stayed on in a country they had come to hate? One answer might be that 280,000 was simply a bad guess. Another possible answer is that the frontiers of North Eastern TÃ¼rkiye had not been finally determined in 1919, when the figure 280,000 was given, and many Armenians who soon thereafter went to what became the Armenian Soviet Republic were included in the figure. A third answer is that Armenians tended to inflate the numbers of their people remaining in Anatolia, because this gave them a better claim to a part of it during the peace negotiations.

Whatever the reason for the initial claim, we must change our earlier calculation and base it on the 80,000 figure. And if we say 80,000 remained and 700,000 emigrated we would have to conclude that between 500,000 to 600,000 might have died during the events of 1915-1923. (1,305,000 - 80,000 - 700,000 = 525,000.) Thus it was not 325,000 Armenians who lost their lives, but 525,000, or, taking into account possible errors in estimation, 600,000. Although in terms of human lives this is considerably more trag

Gwen

Does the exact number matter?

What is an established historical fact is that a significant proportion of Anatolian Armenians died around 1915, which by the way was before there was any "Turkiye" yet.

PS: There is a lot of questioning about what is the definition of "genocide". For clarification, here is the recognized definition laid out by the Geneva Convention, United Nations Declaration of Human Rights:
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/undocs.html#CAG

This definition encompasses a lot of bad stuff that doesn't have to involve soap and gas chambers, stuff that could happen whether in "peacetime or in war". The U.S. embargoes against Iraq during the first Gulf War would also be held to question. So would France against Algerians. So would a lot of activities of former Russia against its various ethnic and religious groups, particularly Muslims.

I wonder if the day will ever come in which we hold our own standards of compassion *not* to those of the hypocrite French but rather to a higher ideal.

Speaking of both non-Christian and Christian countries who also are looking to adhere to the higher ideal of world peace, this is a symbolic step:
http://platform.blogs.com/passionofthepresent/2007/09/symbolic-olympi.html

venezia

The assessment of 1.0-1.5 million Armenians perishing in the WW1 Armenian Genocide comes from major scholarly sources e.g.
1. One of the world's top genocide experts, Professor Colin Tatz, Director of the Centre for Comparative Genocide Studies, Macquarie University, Sydney, Australia e.g. in his article "Genocide in Australia" [Google search for this phrase for link) in which he analyzes the 20th century Racist White Australian forcible removal of 0.1 million Indigenous Children from their mothers, he refers thus to the Armeanian Genocide: "There has been an emotional, even an hysterical, response, to the word genocide. This century has seen several particularly well-documented episodes of the removal of children. The Turks killed close to 1.5 million of their Armenian citizens between 1915 and 1923. One "choice" for Armenian parents was to save their Christian children by "giving" them to Turkish Muslim families. Turkey ferociously denies these events and rejects all talk of restitution. Of importance in context is the origin of Article II (e) in the Convention. Certainly Lemkin, Donnedieu de Vabres and the other drafters of the Convention didn't seek to include "the forcible removal of children from one group to another group" on the basis of the Jewish experience. Jewish children had no such Armenian choice. Clearly they had the latter's case in mind. They may have had a thought for the 200,000 Polish children who were taken by Nazis to Germany to be raised as physically desirable Aryans. Again, they may have been well aware of the Swiss practice of removing Romani (Gypsy) children over the decades. Both Raphael Lemkin and the United Nations (especially the Greek delegate, Vallindis) ensured that removal of children, and hence their disappearance through assimilation, was a (physical) genocidal act."

2. A classic book on genocide is that by Frank Chalk. and Kurt Jonassohn (1990), The History and Sociology of Genocide. Analyses and Case Studies (Yale University Press, New Haven). The authors state unequivocally in their preface to the chapter of the Armenian Genocide (pp249-289) that, QUOTE : â€œThe genocide of the Armenians in 1915 was the first of the modern ideologically-motivated genocidesâ€ and indicates that of 2.1 million Ottoman Empire Armenians only 0.6 million escaped death. Others use a rough figure of about 1 million victims.

What is clear is that a 3,000 year old community in Turkish Anatolia was completely destroyed - an Armenain Genocide that is still being DENIED by Turkish Governments.

Min Tous Kiklous Terates

I seen many statistics about this.issue..in this answer's..whether its 300,000 or 1.5 million..is not the point..what is the point is why did they die and was it nessecary to do so! after all...they where not hated by the turks where they? as hitler hated the jews? if soo.then iam afraid its called genoocide..if not and what you say was a meare displacement of large group of armenians..then they should have been given every comfort to see a steady and healthy transition?if they died starving then its genocide and neglengence on behalf of the turk.if it was done on purpose it was not only genocide but pre metidated mass murder..there fore the same number that is agreed by a world court of armenians that died ..should be the same number of turks to be put in jail for life..or a compensation for each life must be paid by turkey. and that is cold hard cash...if they where armed ? as some one said ..why where they moved? that sounds ridiculous...some thing really fishy has gone astray withthis armenian question.... some thign the turk is not saying or admitting..you dotn move that many people unless you have some thing to hide or gain..one day the truth will come to light..

nakis

i do not now but over 50%of armenian population because this is the meaning of genocide. at greek genocide 355.000 were killed by turks is pontus.

Tansel

8.500.000 armenians,
5.500.000 japanese,
6.758.156 aborgins
3.700.049 elfs
33 aliens (from mars)
and a santa claus

imaginary answer for the imaginary question

Keyser S

300,000 Armenians died in the forced population re settlement by the ottoman empire.a genocide is what the nazis did to jews,turks forced armenians out of turkish borders,that is not a genocide.

300,000 armenians died in the desert not by turkish gunfire.

LOL@ greek barbie.the vain wanna be white girl,calling people ignorant,lol.

ErAs

Well, today Armenia raise all their children in schools, in public, in anywhere of the world as a fascist; they create hatred to Turkish people and it gets bigger and bigger.

For example, even for the time being, we may not be sure about the lost, if a big war or a disaster happens. However, when you try to understand classical Armenian logic, they have an exact number about an event which happened 90-100 years ago;

1,500,000 dead people!

and that was claimed as 300,000 in 1950s;
1,000,000 in 1980s;
1,500,000 in 2000s

So, what number will we see in the future? 3,000,000?

It firstly appeared after the Big World War II, while the genocide of Jewish people was declared. Year by year, the so-called Armenian claims increased, as the fascism has rised in Armenia, as the fake written books all over the world has increased.

Turkiye opens all archieves regarding the history of battles between Turks and Armenians. Armenia has never answered back any call from Turkiye regarding to establish an international committee who can research and find out what really happened because they are afraid of to see their fascism and demand targets in vain.

In the world, there is not much country supporting Turkiye on this subject except some Turkish countries such as Azerbaijan of which some part is in the occupation of Armenia. Turkiye is not a Cristian country; so no Cristian country supports Turkiye against Armenia. Indeed most of them support Armenian claims with the acception of this claim by the law (which is voted by politicians not historians). And Turkiye is a laic country; so no Muslim country support Turkiye as they think laicism is a threat to their religion (in fact it is a threat to their exploitting government system).

Please dont read only one sided books, download Turkish archieves and also read each book you can find just to have a honest opinion.

Tanju

My Friend&My Brother Tom,

Choose one of them ...

First of All, Everybody is speaking, So I must tell something ...

Well, Did you read yourself question ?
When I read your question, I am feeling some Prejudice ..
Right ?
You decided your decision, if you want you can say to us about your decision ...
And You are asking this question for us ...

When I say, How many people died, will you believe me or any Turkish Friend ?
Of Course, Not, You will not believe us, Right ?
How about how many Turkish People Died ?
Why did not ask this question ...

You are not asking, Because Prejudice ...

In my opinion, First all you must ask for us, Is it Real or Not ?
This is much more clear, is not it ?

xanthochroi

all ottoman armenian population size within the Anatolia between that times was 1 or 1.5 million approximately thats what Erik Jan Zurcher said it doesnt mean they were all dead the number of turkish victims in the balkans was much more than all the armenians

Aer Top Boss

the armenians were being armed with weapons by the russians to attack the ottoman empire during that period so if the people are armed and can fight it is not genocide

olgafuriosa

While there is no consensus as to how many Armenians lost their lives during the Armenian Genocide, there is general agreement among western scholars that over 500,000 Armenians died between 1914 and 1918. Estimates vary between 300,000 (per the modern Turkish state) to 1,500,000 (per modern Armenia,[85] Argentina,[86] and other states). EncyclopÃ¦dia Britannica references the research of Arnold J. Toynbee, an intelligence officer of the British Foreign Office, who estimated that 600,000 Armenians "died or were massacred during deportation" in the years 1915â€“1916.

I copied and pasted exactly what wikipedia said, without adding my own words, and I get 26 low ratings? I guess Turks can't handle the truth...no wonder nobody in Europe wants you...

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