Turkey and Greece? Why do they dis-like each other?

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Ntina

The Turkish side (I mean the army because they have a peculiar type of dictatorship because they need to show that they have "democracy" so that they have a hope to enter EU) is trying to distort everything the world knows. 1) They teach on schools that Turks are ancestors of the Trojans! Also the poet that wrote Iliada and Odyssey (in Greek language) he was named Homer and he was a Turk! 2) They are in a constant stance of dispute with Greece by invading in every day basis on our air space. 3) They claim that the current borders in Aegean sea aren't correct. They forget that when they entered UN they signed that current UN maps were correct and they would never argue on that. UN maps are completely clear and show that Turkey has no right claim on the Aegean sea. 4) But even if they have an argument why don't they go on the International Court of Hague? the answer is that Turkey haven't recognized that Court! Imagine that .. So, do you think it is possible for a Greek who knows his country history and knows what is hidden behind the Turkish hypocrisy to say that they are our "friends"??? Finally, you should know that Greece decided not to veto the entering of Turkey into EU but the other Europeans blocked them. What does it mean??
Also, Turks teach in schools that the Turkish language (which was created after direct order from Kemal) is the mother of all modern languages. Is this correct or no?
Finally, Turkish aircraft are invading our air space, Turkey claims that borders in Aegean are disputable and Turkish side helps immigrants entering our country by boats.

I’m “agrafa” using a friend’s account. Someone reported my answer as “insulting” and the Y!A people agreed. I guess Y!A is not so impartial after all. Don’t you think? I think it’s obvious.

Mark II

There were no Turks in Troy.

Tanju

Hi Elena,

This is not correct ...
I believe, there is no problem between public,

We lived many years together, we shared lots of thing ...
In my opinion, Problem is politics and politicians ...

Now, The time is not war, make happy, Peace and living together ...

Zoi ((Ζωή))

I don't have many things to add to that what Vasiliki said. Only one more thing: Turkey is very much controlled by the powerfull army and always wants (eveb today) to expand itself to the West (and towards other directions too). Greece is at the West of Turkey.
Greece has lost many wars that often ended up to tragedies, thing that hurted Greek national pride. Greeks are 7 times lesser than Turks and Turkey is somewhat 6 times biger than Greece, which is a decissive factor to any fight at the past and in the future.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

http://www.notevenmyname.com

http://www.amazon.com/Smyrna-1922-Marjorie-Housepian-Dobkin/dp/0966745108/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c

http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-Anatolia-Modern-Greek-Writers/dp/9600404798/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232355483&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Mechanism-Catastrophe-September-Destruction-Community/dp/0974766038/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232352656&sr=1-1

http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Number_31328

And for a more objective view, in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%931922)

*Turks have the right to invade foreign countries and take foreign lands, but Greeks didn't have the right to fight for the 'reconstruction' of the Byzantine Empire and lands, where Greeks were living?

An educated Turkish user told me that LANDS BELONG TO NO ONE (!), they belong to the one that fights to get them.

*WE DON'T HAVE TO QUARREL WITH EACH OTHER!
PERSONALY, I FEEL OBLIDGED TOWARDS MY GRANDFATHERS NOT TO STAY STILL.
SORRY, FOR PUTTING INNOSCENT PEOPLE -THAT HAPPENS TO BE TURKISH- IN A DIFFICULT POSITION.

Mirage

to understand what's going on first you must know the history and then you have to watch what is going on today because everything that's going on today (the agean sea and cyprus) is awaking the memories of history and creating negative feelings.

xanthochroi

the weird thing is that population exchanges were based on only criteria for dividing greeks and turks that was religion and some turkish speaking orthodox christians who knew no Greek were living in Greece(mostly in epirus,thessaly) there're still some Gagauz villages in northern part of Greece i believe same thing happened in Asia minor too Greeks who converted to islam so i always wondered this who was a Greek or who was a Turk :)

amada

First of all, hate is too strong a word. Let's say , they have conflicts. Of course, these conflicts are not because of Troy.

They go back to the time to the wars when Greece and Turkey were founded. Countries do not get founded without blood shed.

Greece was part of Ottoman Empire until 1829. There were wars from 1821 to 1829 between Turks and Greeks. Then, Greece was founded.

When Europeans came to divide the remaining Ottoman Empire to pieces and get a part each, Greece came along too, but there were wars from 1919-1922 between Turks and European countries and then Turkey was founded. Most of the wars were between Turkish and Greek armies. Then after the constitution of Turkey, there were some agreements between the two countries and the Greeks living in Turkey left their homes and immigrated to Greece and the Turks living in Greece left their homes and immigrated to Turkey. This caused a lot of pain in many.

Also, the still ongoing disagreement on Cyprus. Before 1974, there was one government in Cyprus where there were both Turks and Greeks. In 1960, Turkish Cypriots were minority but they were about 20-25 %. However, the 1960 constitution carried important safeguards for the participation of Turkish Cypriots to the state affairs, like vice-president being Turkish etc. One of the articles in the constitution was the creation of separate local municipalities so that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could manage their own municipalities in the big towns. This article of the constitution has never been implemented by the Republic and president Archbishop Makarios. Internal conflicts turned into war. Macarios tried to take it all over. Many Turks were killed.. Turkey invaded the island in 1974 and seized the northern third of the island, Turkish Cypriots in the south would travel north and Greek Cypriots in the north would move to the south. The de facto state of Northern Cyprus was proclaimed in 1975 under the name "Turkish Federated State of Northern Cyprus". Then it became Northern Cyprus- a seperate country.

Also, there are miscallenous islands that belong to Greeks in the Aegean sea. These become a problem because they are very close to Turkey. They become a problem because there are international rules that say that , waters (sea) at about 10 kilometers far belong to a country. The rest are international. Or half is of one country, half of the other country if it is completely between two countries ( as in the case of Aegean sea ) But the waters 10 km far from mainland Turkey and waters 10 km far from Greece (its islands) are an intersection point. It is not obvious to whom they belong. In fact there are islands which are closer than 10 km to Turkey. ( Even just 3 km far )So,these constitute a problem. A fishing boat from one side travels a bit far, a military boat from the other side makes a show, then a military boat from the other side makes a show and so on.

So, these are the conflicts. But , I don't think the people of the two countries hate each other. They are too similar for that. When outside the country, the best friend that a Turk may have is a Greek. The thinking process of folks of both countries are similar. Music, food is similar. They just hate one another politically.

hanibal

I dont like Greece but I dont hate them also.

Vasiliki-Βασιλική

I wasnt about to edit my answer, but since TB, not only refered to things, but comment to those, I think I do have to comment as well ( in the 2) part)

1)They dont hate each other.
We can say that some of them just dislike
=========================
2) As for the wars/conflicts

-Taking over Constantinopole (present day Instabul) from GREEKS->Byzantines and force so many Greeks to leave the place they used to live for so many years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople

-400 years of Ottoman occupation (and slaughtering and discrimination)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_occupation_of_Greece

-1922 Smyrne Catastrophe ( killings ,refugees)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Smyrna
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_refugees

-Massacre of Chios (82.000 massacred/hanged/butchered-50.000 being enslaved and 23.000 being exiled)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chios_massacre

-Pontic Greek Genocide (350.000 dead Pontic Greeks)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic_Greek_genocide

-1974 invansion in Cyprus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_invasion_of_Cyprus

-Instanbul pogrom -destroying 4.500 Greek :bisinesses/hotels/pharmacies/schools
and killing of 17 people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istanbul_Pogrom

3)No , not Troy, it was way back this!!!
( Tottaly Blunt, good comment, hahah)

4) The relation today is multi:

Some of them still dislike each other.
Some of them have very friendly relations
Most of them dont care a lot

And YES politicians, with the help of the big powers (you know which) have made this relations worst instead of better.

Greeks, can just let go and look ahead, but don't expect people who have brutally lost their families to forget.

@But both we have to be united against trolls like this old Jew

Rengim

Really who knows? Who knows and who could explain why too individuals who have never met each other before hand could even have the least bit of dislike towards each other?

I see why you could hold a grudge against a government, a leader, an event in history or an organization but individuals going against each other without any direct reasons?

Either brainwashing, empty influences or ignorance.

The Turkish/Greek conflicts are mostly left in the past. I haven't met a single person who doesn't condemn the Istanbul Pogrom of 1955 which was orchestrated by the government of the time (they were persecuted by the Turkish army 5 years later, the Turkish Prime minister was found guilty and hanged but I personally believe in another conspiracy theory) and everyone (except those who don't care) just hates the treaty of Lausanne for having separated two people who used to live in harmony together.

Personally I may hate my ex-Greek boyfriend but that's just cause he was an ***.

EDIT: "Also the poet that wrote Iliada and Odyssey (in Greek language) he was named Homer and he was a Turk!" Nooooo, that would be dumb since there were no Turks in Asia Minor in those days. They are teaching that Homer lived in Turkey, particularly Izmir or the Island of Chios. And seriously I don't know about you but that's the education I got in the French system as well.

Hmm no, in France, logically. Of course it wasn't said with certainty but pinpointed down to the cities of Chios and Izmir like I said, I'd give you the details but it's 6th grade education you know, doesn't stick with you that much, I just remembered it cause I found it cool and kinda sad, since believe me few Turks even know the name of Homer.

I just checked wiki "The most common version has Homer born in the Ionian region of Asia Minor, at Smyrna, or on the island of Chios".

And about the Turkish thing, again no. The Turkish education is FAR from perfect (it's very superficial, it doesn't give any false information, keep that in mind, but it does skim over some important events and never give details) but it's still not ridiculous. I believe it is taught that it's the mother of all altaic languages, or the first written one or something of that sort, and the Turkish language has not been created by Ataturk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language), imagine a whole language being invented by a single person, now that's what I call powerful ahah. Geeze where do you get your info from ahaha. You know it's people like you that make foreigners believe there are still some real animosity left amongst us. I'd understand why Zoi would have trouble accepting the Turks as a whole but while she certainly would have the right to defend her family, even she doesn't come off as angry as you.

Dude, your argument is very empty therefore I can't even begin to accept, if you can prove it than go ahead I'd like to be proven wrong. But until then you'll have to with wikipedia you book-reading-person you :) Or at least meet someone who's had the education so you can have a first hand account, it was Locke that said that experience had more values than ideas :)

And furthermore I don't give a rat's *** what the army is doing, as long as no one gets hurt I don't really care, that's not my fight.

Totally Blunt

You have spoken to the wrong people.

If it weren't for politicians of both sides and the priests on one side, peace and understanding between the two nations would abound by now.

Whenever there is a step towards peace, someone with something to hide from the general public drops a "dispute bomb" and off goes any positivity achieved.

Having said that, not everybody falls for that trap, Also, not everybody cares for what politicians and priests say.

As for Troy, I would like to say "THIS IS ISPARTAAAAA!" Ahem.

*looking below*

if we have to go into details:

-Taking over Constantinople (Greeks cannot accept that Ottomans took it from ROMAN hands)
-400 years of Ottoman rule (you don't see them whining to Italians about ROMAN rule)
-1922 Smyrne "Catastrophe", Greek attempt at occupation failed miserably and Greek soldiers burned the city drawing back. A very common act for drawing armies.
-Forced exile of Muslim and Turk occupants of the islands.
-1974 intervention in Cyprus to save Turkish Cypriot lives.

And THIS was the Turkish side. You see why there are topics we still discuss. Greeks just can't let go of the past to look ahead. Because, their politicians and priests don't let them. Because this dislike is a very strong leverage to use for their own wordly benefits. Somebody accuses priests of embezzling? Raise a cry about Turks. Politician preparing for election? Try to gain votes by speaking against Turks. See?

tnl_x

well i don't know all the reasons but one is

turkey (Ottoman empire)coming to cyprus the turkish empire concurred some parts of cyprus and they had a war between turkish cypriots and greekcypriots ((the turkish army came to cyprus to save the T..cypriots))
i live in cyprus and i go to a school where greek and turkish people we often have fights ..
i wish we liked each other but its just not in our blood

...

Because the byzantine empire tried to wipe out all the real greeks ages ago so that left the mixed races to live in greece
Also of the cyprus events that happened not to long ago. They live in rivalry with each other

THESSALONIKI IS NOT GREEK

Because of homosexuality.

Greece = GAYREEK
Turkey = TURKGAY

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