What's the difference on Greeks in Instabul and Turks in Greece?

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Zoi ((Ζωή))

To an extreme lack of time, I don't have time to see all those different opinions about the Rums or Romans etc.
To the Turks that keep insisting calling the Greeks of the Byzantium Romans, just think that they spoke in everyday life the present day Pontian Idiom and this was the informal language since about 10th century and , to the Greeks that don't know that, this language of the 10th century is the Pontiaka that Pontians speak in Greece (including my 85 years grandma, she don't speak ordinary Greek).

The name 'Romios' is used to discribe the Modern day Greeks and not only the ones from Pontos or present day Turkey.

EXAMPLE 1
Just ask this to a Greek:
Ise Romios? And you'll get the answer.
EXAMPLE 2
There's a song of Dalaras, Romios agapige Romia (a Romios loved a Romia...), kind of silly song but it is from ...1975-1980.
Maybe there is to be found on youtube or the site of Giorgos Dalaras.
EXAMPLE 3.
I SAVED IT FOR THE END, IT IS THE POEM OF GIANNIS RITSOS, ROMIOSYNI.
Giannis Ritsos, Romiosyni (=Hellenismus).
Theodorakis used it to make his absolutely gorgeous, magnificent, unique album ;Romiosyni'.
Thank you.

Ipek K Reloaded

The Istanbul Greeks are Turkish people with Greek backgrounds-please notice, we DON'T refer to them with their religion; only ethnicity.

Greece Turks are Greeks with Turkish backgrounds- again notice that we don't refer with religious difference but Greece does.

THAT is the difference between Turkey and Greece.

I hope I could make myself clear.

gugu

The difference between Greeks in İstanbul (not Instabul) and Turks in Greece:

Greeks in İstanbul are mostly upper middle class and sometimes wealthy,urban, highly literate people who have found the opportunity to flourish in a friendly society in a country which they call home.

Turks in Greece, on the other hand, are mostly poor and sometimes lower middle-class people who have encountered segregation, racism, hatred, denial of their identity, attacks, violence, massacres throughout their lives in a hostile society.

Totally Blunt

We don't have Greek Turks. Like above user said, we have Roman Turks, who have traditionally called themselves Roman since the Roman rule since 1000 years ago.

"The term "Byzantine Empire" is an invention of historians and was never used during the Empire's lifetime. The Empire's name in Greek was Basileia Rhōmaiōn (Greek: Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων) — "The Empire of the Romans" — a translation of the Latin name of the Roman Empire (Latin: Imperium Romanōrum); or just Rhōmania (Greek: Ῥωμανία)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Roman_Empire

Greeks have undergone a nation building stage, like all nations of the time, and of course Turkish Rums have been exempt from it. Before that, Greece's populations called themselves Roman, too. THAT'S the difference between Rums and Greeks.

As opposed to that, Turks have called themselves "Muslim" under the Ottoman rule, to differentiate themselves from Christian churches and it is understandable from a certain viewpoint why they were called Muslim. The thing is, that certain viewpoint isn't valid anymore, because Greece's Turks aren't living under the Ottoman Empire and ethnicity has trumped religion.

So, if Turkey is to accept the ancient Greek element in the Rum population, Greece has to accept the Turkish element in their "Muslim" population.

greetings_losers

I actually wouldnt put it like Ipek did. Calling Greeks in Istanbul Turks with Greek backgrounds is not my business but their business. If they want to refer themselves that way, they can be my guest, if they dont I'd totally understand them and accept that. According to the written code in Turkey, anyone who holds a Turkish passport is a Turk, it does not mean that this person is ethnically a Turk. That is more like to stress the equality of the citizens of Turkey than to assimilate them. If someone disagrees with that tho, I'd say she or he has all the right to discuss it

Turks in Greece in return, describe themselves as Turks, regardless of their background. Those include Pomaks (Muslim Bulgars who mostly used to belong to the aristocrat Bulgars before the Ottoman annexation), Çam Albanians (partly probably) and Turks themselves. Last but not least Muslim Gypsies also call themselves Turks. Those people have been considering themselves Turks for hundreds of years and they wont change their idea only because the Greek government, which always has problems with every single one of their neighbors, says so.

Being a Turk by citizenship and being/considering themselves ethnic Turks/Turks are two different things. If someone considers him or herself Turk, u have no other choice than accepting it. As in the case of West Thracians. Greek media say otherwise? They are lying.

atrak

Greek Ethnics who living at Istanbul/Turkey call themselves "RUM" , not Greek .. basically Rum mean is "Byzantine Greeks" a greek who had relation with Byzantine and/or eastern romans .. also rum's spoke kind of medieval greek, not modern .. bit different then modern greek.

Turks and Rums living under the Ottoman authority around 1.000year that's why they "share" to many things, even culture and blood .. that's why Istanbul Greeks .. with correctly name "Rum's" bit different then Greece ones .. because language, culture, tradition .. they belongs Istanbul .. not Greece, nor Athen. That's why they prefer living at Istanbul.

crazygirl158

All of the answers above are so hateful and I would like to write an aggressive message too but instead I am going to share a memory of mine. So I think I was in 8th grade because I remember being tired and depressive(OKS) and we were in our butcher's shop- our butcher became more like a family friend- and these three old ladies came in. They were the kind of people that you would like to be around, loud, funny, interesting.. They had a very thick Rum accent and they were a hilarious!! I didnt even know their names but I laughed my head off that day. I dont even remember the jokes.. :) My mom randomly became friends with them, they started to talk about their flight back from Greece. So after they got their meat and left (and after I catched my breath) our butcher explained my mom who these ladies were. He said that they were sisters, and they came back every year(half the year) to live in their old home. They apparently missed their home too much so even though in past they were forced to move to Greece, they come back every year to Istanbul because they miss it..
there are also Turks who visit Greece regularly and miss their home in Greece also..
I used the word "force" up there which might have offended some but what people should remember is that the immigration in 1955 was a two-wayed journey and both sides hurt and got hurt..
I know this doesnt really answer the question above but sometimes people just have to be positive and forgive and forget and move on or there is never going to be change and we're going to get stuck in the pains of the past..

xanthochroi

i agree with ipek but still some people do not want to understand this greeks of istanbul and turks of western thrace had been excluded from population exchange in 1922 and turks remained under greek citizenship after lausanne treaty as same as greeks of istanbul who are turkish citizens turks were recognized by greeks as the only (muslim) minority group within its territory in the Lausanne peace aggrement and the first turkish group that was left beyond borders because we were a majority before they've struggled about 10 years for independence after 1922 and then they were recognized as a muslim minority group officially called them muslim greeks or muslim slavs etc. usually i know many pomaks live with turks as well as romans side by side in western thrace even small gagauz people who are christian turks and speak turkish so well but the greek government has never recognized them

nakis

all greeks knowing that in thrace the muslim minority in majority appart from turks 75% but if we recognice that then we will permit to turkey to have intresting to one greek part..so we recognise that we have only muslim minority but they are greek people. also in greece we do not have any other minority...............

1st Lady09

The greeks are from Greece and the turks are from the middle east

Cortophagus

Turkey is an empire-like state, in which all minorities in order to be acceptable in society, have to kneel, idolize and live under the strict gaze of the great leader, Kemal Atatürk.

"Roman" Greeks are actually Constantinopoletan Greeks. They do not differ in anything from us, modern Greeks, since Greeks during the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) were also call themselves Romans. The difference is that due to the fact that they were living remotely from the other Greeks, they kept this name for self-identifying.

In 1955 Turkey decided to get rid of them, so they propagated that someone put a bomb into Atatürk's house in Thessaloniki. As a result thousands of Greeks were raped, homes were damaged and stolen, some killed...the big majority of them emigrated to Greece after. Back then, they were driven out as Greeks, now they are "Rums".

Edit: crazygirl158 probably confused the population exchange of 1923 with the Pogrom of Constantinople.

Mirage

I agree with Cort and I want to add that the bomb was a very small one which broke only one glass of a window. But the Turks were keen to slay the Greek people in the name of their great father. People that were living with them (under them) for so many years and never hurt them.

The attacks were not only during '55 but in the early 60's also. Those attacks were part of a bigger plan which included the ethnic cleansing of the Islands of Imvros and Tenedos.

If those people are not Greeks but just Roman Turks or whatever the Turks want to call them, why all those organized crimes and Turkish state terrorism against them?

The Turks now can love the Polites, after all they are not a threat anymore, but it takes a funny incident to see the real Turkish face, please check out the link:

http://infognomonpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/09/blog-post_18.html

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