What do you think about the response of turkish protestors to the murder of greek revolutioner? ?

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genç türk

Hmmm, interesting question, I saw that it caught Alana's attention. I don't know, but I just think that the turkish anarchists action is controversial. It might look like they are in solidarity with greek anarchists, yet on the other hand it might seem like they are attacking both the Greece state and greek nation which I think they were not.

I'm personally not happy with any type of brutality and violence in the name of any type of public entity or symbol. Whether their names are Erdal Eren, Solomos Spyrou Solomou, Tasos Isaac or Rachel Corrie they are timeless icons of self sacrifice. I think the images of these people are engraved forever in the conscience of every human who remembers their sacrifice.

I don't know if we can say who deserves to die and according to what criteria, I personally believe that we are all brothers and sisters under one god and we will go in peace when our time comes, until then work towards peace, progress and understanding of fellow humans, without resorting to violence but being courageous enough to speak up and act against fascism and any type of state instituted brutality. We need to do this to prove that the martyrs did not live or die in vain.

JokerTheFool

Why don't those "Turkish protesters" do something in Turkey when someone is killed by Turkish police?

Myrina

I agree with Vasiliki.
It's a sad thing that Alexandros died.
There are many people in Greece who know very well what happens in Turkey when the police shoot against innocent protesters, not anarchists, I'm talking about people who openly express their mind, and we do support freedom of expression.
Solomos Solomou was not an anarchist, though. He was a hero. He was in the grey zones trying to bring down a flag that is supported by Turkey, not Turkish Cypriots. He was shot in cold blood by a higher Turkish official who still goes unpunished. He had every right to fight for freedom of his country, he was Cypriot!!! And remember: he didn't try to kill anybody! The Turkish army in Cyprus have no right at all to be there!

Vasiliki-Βασιλική

I want answer anything more Just a response to our "lovely neighbor" who support the death of a person in the grey zones.

You shot solomos in cold blood in GREY ZONES.
Not in the occypied area.

Another falsification is that she mentions the "another country's soroveignity".....

I wonder which is this country?
A self proclaimed country that no country recognised exept the fault one?

Yeah,right......Every single country is fault...exept Turkey...

There is no need for further comments.
The answer for a girl(i m sure she is still a teenager,or has that mind) speaks for itself.

and yes Trotsky,REPORT me...Be my guest

@

Really?In a GREY ZONE,a hero puted down (not burn like your compatriots do) and you killed him in cold bllod.
AND HE DESERVED TO DIE??are you really on mind?
I was sure something is going on bad in your head ,but I couldnt imagine that is so serious...

Maybe this is the justice and democracy you have taught ....
The same goes for Tasos Isaak for you?He deserved to die?A biker????They killed a biker...

@Oekaki, TU from me for your honest answer

Linktothepast83

We have our own problems right now to deal with, few people are thinking about other things or countries at the moment...

Zoi ((Ζωή))

Well, I'm not an anarchist (like most of the Greeks) and so I don't know the answer.
Maybe you should ask Trotsky in private, maybe she could ask her friends (anarchists) in Greece and give you a reliable ansewe. Ok, it was a joke.

Also bear in mind that in 1976 we were on the edge of war with Turkey.

@Trotsky:
I can see that you are very young, just put your energy in more productive 'projects'.
Hate and agressiveness is a way, but there are a lot better ways. Many young people believe they can change the world by destroying the system that already exists.
The point is that you have to have something to propose instead of what already exists, if you just destroy, you just destoy and this is anarchism that leads to a much worse jungle than the one we are living today.

♥Barış Awareness♥

I think after reading "genc turks" answer,
my original views on such an event
have deterred. His sincerity and depth
of compassion often just awes me..:*

cpinatsi

1. The kid wan no revolutionary, he was just a kid having coffee. The riots happened AFTER his death.

2. I disagree with the Turks staining the consulate. That is an action against Greece, symbolically. Greece is not against the murdered kid, Greece is against the murderer. we Greeks may protest against our police or our governement, but when another state goes against our Consulate, that is an insult to our country, whose official policy and laws is that the cops are not allowed to fire their arms under those circumstances. Unlike many other countries, among which Turkey, in the case of Solomos Solomou. Where was the Turkish solidarity then?

3. Trotsky, if Turkish anarchists want to riot, let them do it in Turkey, to see how they will get through. We have our own anarchists in Greece, thank you, if this is a new pretext to come over and smash Greece, we will not take it!

Edit: Solomos Solomou deserved to die??? That is the true face of Turkey, of course. No one deserves to die when not threatening another life. A person on a pole, whatever he does, is bound to come down. So he can be arrested. The aim of police and army is to arrest, not kill. Despite the facts about which country, which soveregnty, grey zones, or any other. No country's sovereignty is threatened by a symbolic action, of an unarmed man who I repeat can be arrested. Or stopped without being shot.

Irmak: the Greek government is democratically elected and not fascist. I don't support it, quite the opposite, but I respect teh fact that it is elected and is following the rules of our constitution. Attacking our Embassy is attacking Greece. Attacking our government is also attacking Greece, as the government, happily or not, represents the country. Attacking our government is our own prerogative, not yours. We elect them, we un-elect them, not you.

Oekaki

I don't believe in their sincerity.

Just two months ago, Engin Ceber, a 29-yr old Turkish activist, was *beaten* to death by the Turkish police while he was under custody.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7767069.stm

Where were these "anarchists" then? Where were the anarchy signs spray-painted on police stations? It doesn't take much balls to vandalize the Greek consulate in Istanbul, it takes real balls to rise up against injustice in your own country.

zigzag

Greeks are just tired of all those who interfere in their affairs..I have some greek contacts who participate to the italian section and they have informed me that they have beeen attacked also by the italians when they presented the situation clearly as it has happened in Greece..I wonder where is the inetrest for turks, italians or whatever else not only to interfere into our politics, but also to express an opinion when they dont even have idea of the real every day life of the greeks

Irmak

I think it's about people's ideas or political views. I don't find making generalizations true, like 'Greeks' or 'Turks'. For example my mum supports Greek government and feels sad for them and I support the anarchists. I'm sure in 1980 there were Greek people who were sad for Erdal Eren or early Deniz Gezmiş etc. But there were Greek people who were happy or didn't care. It's about the view.

And that protest..It was against the police and fascist Greek government, not the whole Greece. This events aren't the result of the murder. They are result of bad politics of Greek government. I think Karamanlis should listen the public now.

Earthbound

Look dear friend I do not even know who you are in a certain way. The only thing I know is that ıf you keep talking about hostility,friction,conflict and some particular incidents which took place in the past. We will never be able to establish any particular bridge which is gonna bring us together regardless of what we went through in the past. why do not you try to spend some efforts on the peace and soliderity,friendship etc. DO not give the opportunity to the politicians to divide us into campus. do not allow them to get privelege from the conflict of the communities. we should respect,understand,consider each other regardless what took place in the past. "there never was a good war or a bad peace"

Trotsky vs Kerensky-дахэ дэи

Anarchist Turks and of other nationalities all over the world should go to Greece and join the riots. A mass social change in Greece may bring freedom to other oppressed people of Balkans. There is no time to dwell on the false political problems between countries created by the servants of capitalism when a joint salvation from oppression is at stake.

Zoi, Greek anarchists are not my friend but they do have the support of people who are the followers of similar ideologies. As for the user who mentioned Solomos Solomou, as a servant of the same murderer state, Greece, he certainly deserved to be shot. I cannot see any parallel between the death of Grigopoulos and the death of Solomou, one is shot by his own police for some arbitrary reason and the other is shot, after two warnings, for threatening and insulting another country's sovereignty.

You may take whatever you wish in whichever way you desire. This is my opinion, if I was such a hard line anarchist and/or radical leftist as some Turks in our country claim to be, I would not hesitate to go and join the riots in Greece. They can at least raise money for the Greek anarchists, supply them with weapons etc.

Zoi, it depends on what kind of an anarchism we're talking about. Anarcho-syndicalism, for instance, does define how a country should be governed. Besides, once the system is destroyed, there has to be a new system. It's the law of nature. You can't unfortunately get rid of these systems en masse so any attempt in any part of the world is worthy of my appreciation. Anything representing these systems should be annihilated, disintegrated and desperately doomed to self-destruction until the last bland, tiny little pieces of its reverberation ceases to exist in the future regardless of the means to achieve it may be.

“The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end.” Trotsky

Vasiliki, I'd never bother reporting you and inter alia my age is quite irrelevant. Quit practicing the logical fallacy of argument um ad hominem and reply what I said instead of inquiring about my age. I'm 19 if you really want to know, that does not alter the truthful nature of my opinions, and it most certainly does not put you in a position of superior sophistication.

I repeat Solomou deserved to die. If you climb a flag pole under the eyes of armed Turkish soldiers you risk being shot like an animal. The comparison of Solomou is pure demagogy in order to conceal the scandalous practices of your own state.
-
Only a person who has no experience of the world other than her sphere of family and friends or a person who resorts to hasty generalizations because it best suits her prejudiced, predetermined views on a certain country can so readily jump into conclusions about a nation by reading the answer of a single citizen of the aforementioned country. What excuse me is the 'true face of Turkey'? You have been supposedly exposing our true face for hundreds of years yet, you NEVER speak with common sense but fly off on a tangent of useless bickering about how heroic a crazy person climbing a flag pole on the border of TRNC with a cigarette in his mouth is. I deeply regret to inform you that your senseless, tactless romantic nationalism and appeals to the so-called values of humanism that are only in effect when they are in accord with your own interests leave little impression on me.

The same user whom I refer in the above paragraph goes on by attaching her subjective definition regarding the rights and duties of the armed forces and thereby creating an amusing world where soldiers are not allowed to shoot but only to arrest. I suppose the rest of the world along with Greeks are just needlessly spending money on arms while soldiers are there to arrest people but not to shoot them? Why don't you walk to the nearest country border and make an experiment? Try climbing on a flag pole of country A and disregard all the warnings, what do you think will happen? Will the snipers wait for you to come down and spit on a flag symbolizing the Independence of that country? Of what use are snipers, people who are able to shoot from a distance, if the duty assigned to them all over the world is to 'arrest' someone? Funny, YOUR country seems to suffer from a similar misunderstanding. YOUR guards seem to be unaware of their sacred duty of locking the Dalton brothers up in prison. See here http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR25/014/2002/en/dom-EUR250142002en.html

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=96410

Let me hear your double standards on illegal immigrants, they pose a great danger to the country, do they not? It's ok for an idiot to climb on a flag pole but it is disastrous to have poor people willing to work!

Also the violence in Greece is NOT an internal matter of yours. Other countries in the region are felt threatened with the insufficiency of your authorities in handling the affair. Very naturally, they feel uncomfortable at the prospect of having similar incidents in their own countries. Therefore every country in the region has the right to interfere in the violence going on in Greece at the hands of an obviously incompetent government if the situation gets out of hand as to threaten the stability in other countries. So I suggest you stop the 'this is my backyard mind your owns' attitude because that's not how things work.

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