Who is Necati Zontul?

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Dellarovere

The haterade of both of you towards Greece is blind. Do you both spend your daytime trying to find something to attack and offend Greece with?
And I'm surprised of your coordination: The Vardarskan troll asks and the other troll is there to answer IMMEDIATELY.
You are both uncovered.... And both reported.

tom t

Necati Zontul is an immigrant who pressed charges against Greek state for police brutality. His case is in the courts but the immigrant hasn't got any witnesses or any evidence to support his case.
The worst violations of Human Wrights in Europe have taken place in
FYROM (Vardaska or fake-Macedonia). FYROM is considered the worst country in Human Wrights protection and there are thousands of cases of police brutality.

''I was kept 30 hours without food or drink. I was bound to a table, with a sack over my head so that I could not see who beat me, and I was then beaten on the head and on the back. In the yard the beating lasted 10 minutes but in Veles about 20 hours. The people who beat me were replaced many times. The interrogator was changed every six hours. The torturers more often.''
(testimony of Nasir Jonuzi, an ethnic Albanian-Macedonian community leader reportedly assaulted by the Slav-Macedonian police, May 2001)

And an other report by the Human Wrights watch:
Slav-Macedonian Troops Commit Grave Abuses
(New York, September 5, 2001) â€“ Slav-Macedonian government troops committed grave abuses during an August offensive that claimed ten civilian lives in the ethnic Albanian village of Ljuboten, Human Rights Watch charged in a new report released today.
The report, titled Crimes Against Civilians: Abuses by Slav-Macedonian Forces in Ljuboten, August 10-12, 2001, charges that Slav-Macedonian police troops shot dead six civilians and burned at least twenty-two homes, sheds, and stores in the course of their August 12 house-to-house attack on the village.

The rights group pressed for an immediate investigation, including an inquiry into the role of Slav-Macedonian Minister of Interior Ljube Boskovski, who was present in the village on August 12, the day the worst violations occurred.

"The Slav-Macedonian government must answer to the people of Ljuboten," said Elizabeth Andersen, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch's Europe and Central Asia division. "It is deeply disturbing that the Minister of Interior appears to have been so intimately involved in one of the worst abuses of the war. We demand an immediate and impartial investigation."

Human Rights Watch called on the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to make public the results of its investigation into the events in Ljuboten. Human Rights Watch pressed for a separate investigation by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, which has jurisdiction over war crimes committed in the FYRMacedonia conflict.

Based on a two-week in-depth investigation, including a visit to Ljuboten, interviews with victims and witnesses, and examination of photographic evidence, the report also documented indiscriminate shelling that claimed another three lives in Ljuboten. Contrary to the government's account of the offensive, researchers found no evidence that the ethnic Albanian rebel National Liberation Army was present in the village.

Hundreds of ethnic Albanian civilians who tried to flee Ljuboten faced further abuse. Slav-Macedonian vigilantes beat three men unconscious in full view of the Macedonian police on August 12. One of the men was shot in the head by the Slav-Macedonian police as he attempted to flee the beating. Police separated over one hundred men and boys from their wives and children and took them to police stations in Skopje, where they were subjected to severe beatings. Atulah Qaini, aged thirty-five, was taken away alive from the village by police officers, and his badly beaten and mutilated corpse was later recovered by family members from the city morgue. According to their relatives, at least twenty-four men from Ljuboten, including a thirteen-year-old boy, remain in police custody after suffering serious beatings from the police.

The police abuse suffered by ethnic Albanians fleeing Ljuboten is consistent with patterns of systematic abuse Human Rights Watch has documented in FYRMacedonia over the past six months. Human Rights Watch urged international monitors to make a priority of monitoring and reporting on the conduct of Slav-Macedonian police.

"Endemic police abuse is a potential spark that could re-ignite the conflict in Macedonia," Andersen said. "We can't wait for a gradual restructuring of the police over the next three years. Immediate steps-including monitoring and accountability-are needed to curb abuse."
(The trolls should look in there own country and then judge Greece.
Those Vardaskans are ridicules!)

dvatwork

Well, you know who he is, otherwise you would not be asking. If you are so concerned about human rights, why don't u look at your own country . . . . . . and that of your buddy?

Leonarda

Oh...again our dearest friends who never lose the chance to show their feelings, one from the nothern borders, the other from the East...
Yes allan...so so bad people the greeks...you are right..But can i ask you why all your compatriots come to our country since we are so uncivilised?You know...if i hate a country or the people of it...i dont even deal, or answer to a question, by pride, because i feel myself higher to deal with such things...You....?Why to deal so much with such barbarians like us?Such cruel people like us?
As for the girl from The eastern borders....we know, dont worry. except of 3, maximum 4 persons from the turkish section, the rest...we know very well how much you adore us...
Independently if this country mrs Karasu left you so many things on your land, and if it is not the only one, at least it is between the few who support Turkey in European community...
Well done dear friends...Well done...Thank you...

..Tolia..

who is allan d?

you know you are not welcome here

your new born country has nothing to be proud of, so get involved with your inner problems and leave others alone

you cant harm Greece, no matter how much you want this

Christine R

Den mpainw kan sthn diadikasia na sou apantisw...

I don;t give a even a penny to answer you...

dofaegean

Allan I could not be absent from your question, because you call me and all of my friends above! And you know how Greeks corespond...
So, one more or less report no matter, but believe me I have tired with you!

Alexios Komninos

To the questioner:
Your inferiority complex is unlimited. You can talk against Greece because Greece is feeding you and keeping you and your compatriots alive. The only thing you can do is steal history and names to feel that you exist. Which is your identity? Albanian, Gipsy of Bulgarian? Because this is of what your people consist of.

To the answerer:
Who is talking? The "midnight express" is a story of your country, not ours. The slave traffickers are turks, and everybody knows they through immigrants in the sea when they are chased after.
And Europe will never accept you because it is well known that human rights are violated in your country.

zigzag

Again allan here...Wellcome, since you dont have even a section where you can express your feelings about Greece, why not to use this?You did well..
Have you ever seen anyone of us dealing with the Balcans?Have you ever seen anyone of us provocking you?No...because we sont have the mood or the time to think the whole day how we will create provocartions...
As for Karasu...one turkish friend more...all of you speaking about greek turkish friendship, even flirting with the greeks, but never forgetting that we have to harm the greeks ...
Nice....

john l

the question is perhaps "Who is Allan" because we do not know. It is easy to find out who Necati is and he seems to have a valid case agaisnt the Greek militia. Certainly his letters show some care to seperate reasons for annoyance at the system from any sort of racist rant. All countries have problems and Tim Wilson's response here (on behalf of Necati?) is measured. It is in contrast to some of the postings here.

Check these details whioch are posted on the internet from the ATHENS NEWS and other greek papers:
Since 15th October when his case finally came to trial, and 5 men were convicted of torture and sexual assault, the Greek media has variously diluted or wrongly reported the facts. This seems to be in line with the intimidation we suffered before the trial. I am printing the report from Friday in the Athens News. Note the use of the word "claim" in this article and "tried to assault" in the article from Kathimerini. The Athens News has a longer letter from us reprinted on Indy News before, but has so far failed to publish it.

Migrant-beating trial ends in suspended sentences

KATHY TZILIVAKIS
A NAVAL court in Hania, Crete, found five Greek coastguard officers guilty of physically and sexually abusing a group of migrants smuggled to the island four years ago. The officers, however, walked out of the court free men on October 16 after receiving suspended sentences.

The victims were part of a group of some 160 migrants on board a Turkish smuggling boat towed into Souda harbour by the coastguard on 30 May 2001. This is one of the very few times officers in Greece are convicted on charges of torture and abuse.

One of the officers, Stylianos Dandoulakis, was found guilt of sexually abusing a man in the toilet. He was sentenced to 30 months in prison suspended for five years. Constantine Vardakis, who was charged with abetting Dandoulakis, received a 12-month suspended prison sentence.

Ioannis Florakis, Ioannis Lefakis and Athanassios Moumtzis, were charged with physically abusing many of the migrants. All three received an 18-month suspended prison sentence.

The migrants (119 men, 20 women and 25 children), mainly Kurds from Turkey, Iraq and Iran, as well as Turks, Afghans, Pakistanis, Eritreans and Ethiopians, were held at the port town's old merchant marine academy. It was there that the six coastguard officers allegedly beat the migrants. Turkish migrant Necati Zontul says he was sexually assaulted.

According to human rights groups Amnesty International and the Greek Helsinki Monitor, all the adult male migrants said they were punched and kicked by the officers and that at least 10 of them were severely beaten and threatened.

ATHENS NEWS , 22/10/2004, page: A15
Article code: C13101A153

from Kathimerini
(Monday)
Five guilty of migrant abuse
A military court in the Cretan town of Hania has found five coast guard officers guilty of beating up a group of Kurdish illegal immigrants in heir custody three years ago.

But in a decision made public on Saturday, the court proceeded to give sspended sentences of 12 to 30 months' imprisonment to the five officers. A sixth defendant was cleared.

The 24 immigrants who suffered abuse were part of a group of 164 people held in coast guard installations in Souda, near Hania, after arriving in Greek waters on a battered vessel from Turkey in June 2001.

Among the witnesses was the former commander of the Souda coast guardstation, Diamantis Vassilagoudis, who said several of the detainees had complained to him of being beaten up by the men under his command. He also confirmed that two of the officers had tried to sexually assault one of the migrants.

In mid-September, the Defense Ministry admitted that army commandos on the remote eastern Aegean islet of Farmakonissi had violently abused a group of illegal immigrants who landed there. An investigation was ordered, but its results have still to be made public.

Large numbers of illegal immigrants reach Greek shores every year, mostly in rickety vessels that leave from Turkey.

Yesterday, coast guard officers rescued 34 illegal migrants from a sinking boat off the island of Leros in the Dodecanese, and were searching the seas off Lesvos for another migrant ship that was reported to be trouble in the area. The 34 migrants - 25 men, three women and six children - were located some 8 kilometers off Leros after a migrant couple told police in Athens that their daughter, who was on the boat, had contacted them by cellphone to seek help.

The second search operation was under way until late yesterday off Lesvos for traces of a vessel thought to be carrying illegal migrants. The search was hampered by high winds of up to 8 on the Beaufort scale.

The coast guard has arrested over 20 more illegal migrants on Lesvos and in the southern Peloponnese over the past three days.

hard_n_tender26

Yawn.... the poor trolls are out of their cave again...... dont you have a toilet to clean today? lol

johnny cee

I've never met this person, or heard of him or her. Perhaps you could google the name and let us know.
I Cr 13;8a

fra w

HE is a torture victim. He is well represented in the internet and though his assailants have gottenb off almost scott-free, they were certainly found guilty. current events in Greece should make it all the more important that the Greek Government take responsibility for what they did to him and say sorry. This is not a contest about whether there is more torture in Fyrom or in Turkey or in Greece, or indeed in the UK. There should be no torture at all, and a policy of zero tolerance. In Necati's case, he was tortured for fun by some thuigs from Crete: their names are on the internet. They were, however, probably acting under orders from the Ministry of Merchant Marine and it is impossible that such routine torture was not implicitly authoriozed. Privately, Necati has explained that the Captain who stopped the torture also began it, and put on plastic gloves when he personally began to beat victims before the boat had even reached the shore. He also says that the Coastguard fiored real bullets at the crowd on the boat. This is in line with other reports of other atrocities in Greece.
Why should Greece be singled out for such attention? Because Greece is already a member of the EU and has signed undertakings not to tiorture. Since Necati's case, there have been numerous allegations of torture, including the attempted rape of two mexican reporters caught in Piraeus harbour in the run-up to the Olympics in 2004. Always, the story is the same: thyere is a promise that the matter will be investigated and that the police /coastguiard involveds will be disciplined. This never jhappens except as in Necati's case, when International pressure is applied.
These incidents show Greece in an unattractive light and do not represent the real Greece at all. But they crfetainly represent something of the reality of the Greek Police, the Coastguard and the Government. As there are now elections, maybe it is time to send a signal and to have a proper debate about torture in Greece?

tim w

I am pleased that there seems to be some debate on this. In fact, despite the posting, Necati had witnesses to his torture and was himself a witness to other torture. It is well-documented, and two Coastguardsmen, Dandoulakis and Vardakis, were found guilty. Our concern lies in the lenient sentence which was further reduced on appeal; also on the efforts made to prevent Necati from testifying in the first place, which involved serious physical and verbal threats to him, to me and to our lawyers; efforts made by Greek-staffed NGOs to pervert the course of justice and to mount a smear campaign against Necati; a successful effort by the Greek Embassy in London to deny that any court action was taking place (there is an email paper-trail);efforts made by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Greece to deceive the British Government about the dating of the end of the case; the failure of any authority in Greece to provide information or indeed protection against threats which became ever more serious and life-threatening. Now, much of this may be put down to rogue elements in the Greek state system, and to those complicit in the torture itself or seeking to protect the assailants; however, it does not explain why the Greek State has failed to follow the advice of the Greek Ombudsman and why it has failed in 6 years to send Necati an apology, any expression of sympathy, a statement of non-recurrence or/and an offer of compensation. The Greek State's silence in the face of all this bad behaviour suggests it condones such behaviour.
And for the record, neither Necati nor myself are "anti-Greek". But we are determined to bring this brutality to the attention of a wider audience. As has been demonstrated by the torture of Afghans in 2004 and of Pakistanis in 2005 as well as recent events, the Greek authorities have still not learnt that torture is unacceptable.

We have called on the Greek Government itself to table an EU debate on and condemnation of torture and to lead the way to building a common definition, but the Greek Government has done nothing. The nationalist rants here, I am afraid, rather miss the point, don't they?

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