Why do Armenians?

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Mehmet K

There are a lot of troll here but only one of them answered. and as you see they are still insisting on story... Let me copy a little part of a book written by a Russian officer.. Full book translated to four different language can be reacheable at below given link...When reading you will feel SAVAGENESS, FEAR, PERVERSION, VULGARITY etc...Please write what you feel for participants...

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I WITNESSED and LIVED THROUGH
(Erzurum 1917-1918)
Lt.Col. TVERDOHLEBOV

Notes pertaining to the Armenians’ attitude towards the Turks living in Erzurum and in the settlements nearby, between the outbreak of the Russian Revolution and the delivering of Erzurum by the Turkish
Forces on March 12, 1918.

These notes are appended to the “Notes on the State of the Second Russian Artillery Regiment”. These notes are prepared separately to serve as an individual document.

The Turkish-Armenian enmity that is known by the European and the Russian public opinion has reached its peak with the events experienced during the First World War.

Armenians’ aversion to the Turks is a renowned fact throughout the ages. Armenians have always been successful in presenting themselves as a nation subjected to heavy torture, and oppression by the uncivilized bigoted Turks.

The Russians who had close relations with the Armenians to a certain extent have developed different views on their level of civilization. Armenians having considerably vile, surprising, and rapacious character can only live off on others. However, the Russian peasants have different judgments on them. I heard the Russian soldiers saying, “Turks have only treated them roughly, but did not kill them. They should have killed them to the last man!”

The Armenian troops among the Russian soldiers have always been regarded as the most inferior. They have always preferred working in the rear echelons rather than fighting at the fronts. The increases in the desertion of the Armenians and in their wounding themselves are all definite proofs of the idea developed.

The things I personally witnessed and heard during the two months that passed until the Turkish forces’ delivering Erzurum are beyond all the evil one would think of the Armenians.

None of the Armenians were allowed to enter neither in the city nor in its environs during the occupation of Erzurum by the Russians in 1916. During the office of the Commander of the 1st Corps General Kaltin, who was the commander of the forces in Erzurum and its environs, no military units having Armenian troops were sent to this region.

After the lifting of all the measures, following the Revolution,
Armenians attacked Erzurum and its environs in waves.
Synchronous to those attacks, the houses in Erzurum and in the villages were pillaged and people were killed. The presence of the Russian units and Russians were keeping the Armenians from committing massacres. They were conducting massacres and pillaging in secret and cautiously.

..............................

It was soon discovered that all were nothing but wiles and traps. Turks who were taken into this police force started abandoning their places immediately. Because, the Turkish night patrols started to disappear all of a sudden and nothing was heard of them ever. Even the Turks who were taken out of the city to work were not coming back. The members of the Martial Courts established did not try or punish any of the criminals as they feared to be sentenced to capital
punishment.

...................

Soon I heard that the Armenians were massacring the Turkish people in Erzincan. I heard all the details of the massacres directly from my Commander-in-Chief Odichelitzé in person.

The event happened as follows. The massacres were organized by a doctor and a contractor. In other words it was not conducted by one of the gang members. I cannot write the names of those two Armenians as I do not remember their last names. More than 800 unarmed innocent Turks were massacred. Only an Armenian was killed while the massacred were trying to defend themselves. They
slaughtered the people as if they were sheep. They had the people whom they sentenced to death dig large ditches. They took the people to edges of those ditches in groups and after having butchered them like beasts they dumped them into those ditches.

One of the Armenians was counting the corpses thrown into ditches and upon his saying, “Is there only 80 people? It can take 10 more! Slaughter another 10!” disdainfully ten more people were slaughtered, thrown into the ditch and the corpses were covered with earth.

This Armenian contractor is said to have ordered the taking out innocent Turks from a building one by one. And he, just for fun, chopped the heads of some 80 people one by one as they were coming out of the door.

The deserter Armenians who were equipped with the most modern weapons started to retreat towards Erzurum after the Erzincan massacres. The Russian artillery officers, who were to protect the logistics lines from the kurdish attacks, were forced to retreat with their guns.

In one of those lines a necessity of placing a unit for a probable clash occurred. The Armenians, who were discomforted with the orders, set the Russian officers’ houses a fire while they were sleeping, Russian officers barely managed to get out. Most of their war gears were burned into ashes.

The Armenian mobs retreating from Erzincan to Erzurum
exterminated all the Muslim villagers they met on their way. The artillery guns that were being withdrawn from the logistics support lines were being transferred on the covered wagons. The wagons were under the care of the hired, civilian and unarmed kurds. As the convoy came closer to Erzurum, the Armenian deserters and the troops started to kill those kurds at the places where they stopped for a rest. They realized their evil deeds whenever the Russian officers entered their rooms. Whenever the Russian officers came out of their
rooms on hearing the clamors, and tried to save the kurds, the armed mob walked over, and threatened them with the same end.

Those massacres were carried out in the most repulsive manner. For example, at a meeting held by the artillery officers at the Erzurum Garrison, Lieutenant Mzivani narrated an incident he witnessed: an Armenian soldier approached a kurd who was dying in agony, running, and tried to push the stick in his hand into his mouth. As he could not manage to push the stick into his mouth that was tightly closed, he took the dying man’s clothes off, and started to kick his naked body with his iron heeled boots.

All of those who could not manage to flee from Ilıca2 were
massacred. The Army Commander [General Odichelitzé] said he saw lots of corpses belonging to children whose throats were butchered with blunt knives, and bodies cut into thin and long strips.

Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznof, who went to Ilıca three weeks after the massacres, on his return on February 26 told me about a scene he saw there: “the corpses are lying along the village roads in the open air. All the Armenians going in the front were spitting on the corpses and cursing at them. A mosque yard about 12-15 square sagenes [an area
roughly equal to 55-70 square meters] was covered with the corpses of the senior Turkish citizens as well as of men, women, and children that formed a pile reaching 1.5 meters in height. The traces of vile assaults were observed on the women’s corpses. Rifle cartridges were pushed into the genital organs of most of the women.”

Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov said he had called two Armenian girls, who were following a series of courses, to the mosque. They were working as telephone operators at the detachment. He told them to witness what the Armenians had accomplished there. Lt.Col. Gryaznov found their joyous laughter bizarre.

Lieutenant Colonel reproved them severely expressing his anger and indignation in fury. He asked, “How could the well-bred and welleducated Armenian girls laugh and exhibit joyous behavior at the sight of such an event?” He said, “This is an enough proof for Armenians’, even their women’s, being more contemptible than the wildest animals. This is even much more than an officer, who is shaken by this sight, and who has seen many battles and terrible events, can bear!” The Armenian girls replied him saying that they laughed as a result of nervous breakdown.

A contractor working at the Alaca3 Logistics Support Command, told us about a despicable event that took place in Alaca on February 27. The Armenians nailed a Turkish woman upon a wall alive; took her heart out and placed it on her head.

The first full scale massacre in Erzurum started on February 7. As it is now claimed, the soldiers of the artillery regiment gathered some 270 Turks from the streets by force. They captured them and locked them up in the baths in the barracks displaying their true intentions. I managed to save only 100 of them. I have just learned that the others
were released by the soldiers after their learning about my arrival. Under the light of the testimonies of the rescued, this vile attempt was realized by the Armenian Reserve Officer Karagadayev, who was temporarily appointed to the artillery regiment from the infantry units. I still could not have determined his role in this event clearly.

Several other Turkish people were killed in the streets that day. Several Armenians, forming an execution squad, shot more than 10 unarmed civilian Muslims at the railroad station on February 12. This gang threatened to kill the officers who tried to save those Muslims. Meanwhile, I ordered the arresting of an Armenian who had murdered
a Turkish person for no reason at all. The General Commander of the Caucasus Army had already given his permission for the founding of a Court Martial in Erzurum in line with the previous stipulations prevailing before the Revolution, with an authority give death penalty.
When one of the Armenian officers told this arrested Armenian that he was going to be hanged he started to shout, “Where on earth have you seen an Armenian hanged for killing a Turk?” offended.
...........................................

1 Georgian origin Commander of the Russian Caucasian Army.
2 Ilıca district affiliated to Erzurum.
3 A village affiliated to Ilıca district of Erzurum.

RoVale

They just happen to be two groups who don't like each other. Naturally, they're not going to agree on something like this.

Slick Rick

your right they are brainwashed at school. but also they do have an inbuilt characteristic to lash out at others.
You see to an Armenian the world owes them a living and that's that.

ՎԱՀԷ

1) Asking this on Turkey section has no use and it will only lead to more angry discussions between Armenians and Turks.
2) Turkey comes up with many different ideas to deny genocide, some of them that I've heard:
a) It's about Ottoman empire and we are the Republic of Turkey, so nothing is related to us
b) Armenians helped Russians, so they aren't that innocent
c) Turks were also killed during World War I
d) The term genocide was defined after 1915, so events before that cant be referred to as genocide
and some more that I may not remember.
Each one is more funny than the other.
OK, we also say that it belongs to Ottoman empire, and exactly because of that is a historical fact, should be accepted and recognized.
The fact that Armenians helped Russians doesn't mean that the genocide is reasonable. Before 1908 revolution, Armenians were with Turks and helped them for the revolution the events happened in early years of the Young Turk government made Armenians against Turks and made them join Russians for their freedom and liberation.
Of course Turks were killed during World War I, because Ottoman empire got involved in war with no reason and it was a major reason of it to become weaker and weaker.
And after all, Turkey recognizes Holocaust which was also before genocide term definition, so what...?
-----------
To Blunt:
I know about ASALA and I'm very happy that it doesn't exist anymore. I have also expressed my opinion on PKK many times and that I hate terrorism.
Weather it be ASALA, PKK and the Gray Wolves.
What does your government do to face with Gray Wolves? The active racist group with dreams of pan-Turkism, did you know they're pushing Azeris in Iran for separation? Fortunately Azeris have proven in history that they love their country Iran and have stand against threats of Ottoman empire for centuries.
And not to mention about terrorism activities this group has done...
Now, when it comes to the Armenian issue, you are "Muslims" and Armenians are "enemies of Muslims" (To gain attention, support and pity of other Muslim people ). Armenia has very good relations with many Muslim countries, it has nothing to do with religion.
But when comes to EU, you're "secular" and "laic".
Which one is your real face?

Anoosh

You are a racist and full of hatred, your soul is poisoned with hatred, why don't you learn about the real History of Armenia and the truth about turkey and its sneaky leaders who did not honor international laws and took over our lands.
Armenians are here from thousands of years, and turks are invaders, go read and study other places than turkish sources.
ARMENIAN GENOCIDE IS A FACT AND TRUE, IT WAS PLANNED BY SULTAN HAMID AND WAY BEFORE THAT AND FINISHED BY YOUNG TURKS.

Dr. Beemer

You just love to provoke dont you? Why do you just keep repeating the same sentences over and over?

22 powerful and significant countries have accepted the fact of Armenian Genocide. 40 states have officially labeled the Armenian massacres suffered in the Ottoman Empire as Genocide. When you add up the population of these countries it is 10 times the population of Turkey which is 70 million. While Armenia has only 3 million. Which is more likely to be brainwashed 70 million with article 301, and nationalist criminal lawyers posing as historians or The rest of the WORLD and the European Union (they had nothing to gain besides damaging relations with a NATO ally?

Get over it man, its over. You have lost the game.

ermenicik

Let history be judged by historians.
Some of these people can't stand their own
people, when they say there was no genocide.
These people are fanatics!

handsome

What Mr Beemer says can be translated like this;
200 trillion flies in America cannot be mistaken!
so eat s...!

hanibal

If I think like an Armenian at 1915 more than 8 nation made genocide to Turk's.
Anzac's , UK , France , Sudan , Indians est at Dardanelles (Çanakkale)war.

Totally Blunt

Tencere dibin kara, seninki benden kara.

I can't hear you recognizing the terrorist acts of ASALA and feeling sorry for the Turkish diplomats it killed, Mr Vahecan?

Or, if you want to go back further, what about the acts of Armenian gangs on their Muslim neighbors, heh?

Just admit it. You have no idea, or at least no impartiality, regarding the events, and you accuse people of not being impartial. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

See? I explained my opinion, but I didn't demand land from wherever you live, nor did I insult the people you respect. It IS possible to do so. Just grow up a little.

.:::Niko:::.

They don't believe in Santa clause however they do believe in armenian genocide I'm clueless :)

Lou

All the facts show it happened. Although this is being said, I don't know what reason this is a matter for us now. None of you Armenians were put to death yet. I don't think you will be put to death in Turkey. There are nations in this world who do this still and you should think about them today not your land yesterday. You are selfish for what Turks did to you.

I2294

There is a consensus with almost ALL historians and scholars, that what happened was a genocide. No one outside of Turkey actually sits there and argues what "really" happened.

In fact, Orhan Pamuk (a Turkish, Nobel Prize winner) was PUT IN JAIL, for saying that there was a genocide. It was not until heavy international pressure, that your government released him, but exiled him out of the country. Also, see Taner Akcam's books. He is also a Turkish scholars.

The numbers never changed..it something else was said, then they were misinformed.

No one can randomly accuse people of crimes against humanity, without something to back it up.

Among many texts written on this subject, I particularly like: "A Shameful Act: The Armenian Genocide and the Question of Turkish Responsibility (Paperback)
by Taner Akcam...again, hes Turkish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0NnBSKfJAs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP3YxCGdD9E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VF0RJDHYDs&feature=related

mountainofshadow

Cheers my friend
Clean and clear with a standing like that.

not fair

They don't have any archives.
The alleged genocide is a LIE!
When they lie they can't get any numbers straight.
Yes they collaborated with Russians, as they promised
their orthodox brothers their own country.
It was too bitter for the Turks cause it sort of hurts when
people you feed and protect stab you in the back.
And about those who were stabbed, slaughtered and raped on the Turkish side; Those were Kurds, Assyrians, Lazes, Tcherkezians, Georgians all the folks that lived happily under the Turkish rule and called themselves Ottomans. For the very reasons those peaceful Armenians called themselves Ottomans. But the collaborators like Kaschnaks (Armenian) wanted to gang up with Russians and part from the Empire just like PKK is doing it today.
If every attempt of the traitors and terrorists was to be called fight for freedom and their failure was genocide than don't be surprized if they do the same with the PKK today.

!!!

I think there is level of brainwashing on both sides.

The Babe is Armed!

You are being too general. It isn't all Armenians. There are some Armenians who are making their country look like a land of hostile ignorant war-mongers. I don't think that's how most Armenians want to appear in the world.

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