Anyone here agree that France was once the ''Germany'' of Europe during Louis IV the Sun King's reign?

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Rillifane

Like Cabal, I take a certain offense at the notion of calling France the "Germany of Europe."

I'd add to what Cabal has said by pointing out that Germany did not exist until the last years of the 19th century and gained its very brief days in the sun only by subordinating its freedom to one dictator after another. During that period its justly earned the contempt and hatred of civilized humanity by its despicable conduct. Under Wilhelm I and his chancellor Otto Von Bismarck, they fomented a war against tiny Denmark and then turned on their erstwhile ally, Austria. Under the second Wilhelm, Germany dismissed an international treaty as a "scrap of paper" and behaved with bestial savagery towards the helpless Belgians, sanctioning a campaign of outrages and war crimes. Then under Hitler, Germany once again plunged the world into war. German behavior in this period is too well known to need to be recited.

Germany in its short existence has been the cause of the two worst wars in human history and set new standards for mass murder. We can all be thankful that in the post Hitler period Germany has finally emerged as a peaceful democratic nation.

France, by way of historical contrast, has existed as a nation for many centuries. For most of its existence it has been either the most powerful nation on the European continent or one of the principle claimants to that title.

For centuries, most of the other states in Europe sought to model themselves on France, copying everything from their laws to their fashions from French innovations.

It is the originator of the Civil Law system upon which half the world patterns its own laws. The metric system, now the world standard is French. France's contributions to art, culture, philosophy and every aspect of the modern civilized world are evident everywhere.

The United States itself is, to a large measure, the child of France, not only because of the critical French contribution to the Revolutionary War but also because of the French Enlightenment thinkers role in the intellectual ferment that produced men like Jefferson and Washington.

Cabal

Nope, we were not the Germany of Europe, we were the France of Europe. A powerful country of itself who grew to five times its original size in a thousand years, held against the power of the Spanish empire at its zenith and continued to gobble land until we cut the head of our king. You might also mention that France also fought for 20 years with Napoleon against 7 European coalitions, that France won the Independance war of the US for them (and got totally scr**** in thanks), and also fought the three times more numerous German army to a standstill during WWI before the British managed to put enough men on the ground to reinforce them.
The population crashdown after two centuries of nearly continuous wars was indeed very impressive.
Why do the US believe that crap about surrendering? Because 8 years ago the French also refused to start a war in Iraq while there was still so much to do in Afghanistan and was at the head of the pack of other countries (including 'mighty' Germany) who refused to follow blindly the US in what they all saw as a purely US desire to get Iraq, its oil fields, and for little Bush to avenge daddy Bush. In answer the US government (Cheney and others) started a virulent propaganda campaign against the French, the lies went fast and thick and were swallowed whole by the Americans who only knew that Iraq was the most dangerous country in the world with its (non existent) WMD ready to be used against the US. The French fries was the funny part of that campaign. The non funny part is the fact that Americans who seem perfectly normal find nothing wrong in throwing insults at the French they would not dare throw at anyone else (change French to... Black (evil grin) and watch them squirm). Noone mentioned either that the French had offered troupes and money in Afghanistan and while Cheney and co was calling them a bunch of cowards were serving under US order there.

You can also mention that in Europe it is the country with the biggest military budget and the only independant nuclear power (UK has US nuclear heads).

Austerlitz

About the war in Irak and the consequences for the French, I add that Germany refused to take part in the war, Russia too, Spain called its troops back in 2004, but the Americans have never called them cowards... it's easier to choose one scapegoat, and as Condolezza Rice had said : Forget Russia, forgive Germany, punish France.

Likle Cabal and Rilifan I am disturbed with the idea of calling France the Germany of Europe, as if the name of France meant non-powerful, and the name of Germany meant powerful. France was the most powerful nation in Europe for centuries, so... as you said it the whole Europe had to ally to defeat Napoleon (if BlÃ¼cher and the Prussians had not been there in Waterloo, this would not be the name of an english station but rather of a French station...). And today, thanks to the nuclear, France is still one of the most powerful nations in the world.

WISE OWL

The Sun King was LOUIS XIV.

Louis IV was a Frankish king who reigned between 936 and 954, the son of Charles III nicknamed "le Simple" et Edwige of Wessex. He was brought up in England, and his nickname was "Louis d' Outre Mer". He died at the age of thirty three .

nnik

You made my brain explode there. Yes France was once territory of Germany, but obviously not anymore.

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