How many Americans are aware of these numbers?

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Annie D

I'm an older person whose father fought in WWI. I was aware that both England and France lost a whole generation of young men. The French also had a huge number of men who were invalids for the rest of their lives due to their war injuries.

As a chlld, I knew quite a few older ladies, friends of my mother, who were what we called "old maids". Many of them had a picture of a young man in military uniform on their dresser. I asked my mother about this and she several times told me that the lady in question had lost a fiance in the war. With a whole generation of men being gone before their time, there was a whole generation of women who lived out their lives alone. Very sad.

I don't understand why Americans become so hostile if anyone questions our ideas. If you're not with me, you're against me? What, no one's allowed to have a different opinion than ours? In many ways, our nation behaves in the way that abusive men behave. Most men who are bullies become outraged if anyone questions them. I find this very sad.

A lot can be learned from stopping to question why others don't agree with us. Have they had an experience which leads them to another conclusion? Perhaps we'd be smart to question and listen to our critics before discounting their views.

The French have a reputation for being rude. I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who cite this belief have never actually met a Frenchman or woman! Americans are isolated. Many, many don't have a passport and have not been out of the US and all they know is what they've been told by a media which is owned by large corporations and don't do a very good job of presenting world affairs.

Americans have been isolated from the direct effects of war. During WWII, people were shocked at how brutal the Nazis were, but Americans at home didn't suffer any direct consequences of war. We weren't bombed. We didn't have our towns occupied by an enemy. I think Europeans had a much different experience which has made them much more aware of nations other than their own. With the exception of 9/11 and a few other terrorist actions, Americans haven't had to deal with the violence first hand. That has kept us more insular.

Jim S

The reason so many more French were killed was because that WAS the front. They took the brunt of the invasions, while its been a long time since America fought a war on its own soil.

(Look at the Russian casualties in WWII. Its almost unbelievable.)

An American could also argue (convincingly) that if it wasn't for the US, France would be no more.

But I'd say, that's history. Let's look at what each has done recently. (I'd argue that just about 4 years ago to the day, the US made a huge mistake, and France took the right path.)

fookine

Hi Rilifanne, what's up? :o)

There is one thing France and the USA share : Jerks! don't talk about you rilifanne but I'm fed up of those (french or americans) who try to feed a weak war.

Our 2 countries always supported, without France, the USA would be under the cut of the racists and the reciprocal is true, we were there against the confederated troops and the USA saved us from the Nazis, that's the real relationships between our countries.

When we said "no" to the war in Iraq, it wasn't against the USA, the USA were not threatened nor attacked, If they were attacked, we would have been the first to take weapons. Chirac was the first president to come after the 9/11, don't forget it. We had terrible wars in our country, that's why we ALL say : no more! In France (or Germany) we all have a grand father who suffered with that ****.

Thanx rilifanne for the question, I fight here in France against the opponents to america, Bush is not all the americans, French are not your enemies.

le_ffrench

You are right, americans easily forget these numbers. They forget that their country avoided entering both world wars for as long as it could.
You are right also, in 1941, despite what had happened in Europe, the U.S. went into the war totally unprepared, with obsolete tanks and warplanes.

As for the French SS division Charlemagne, it was indeed not a full sized unit with only about 7000 men, but more than 100 000 French from Alsace and Moselle were forced to join Wehrmacht to fight in the Russian front (they are known as "MalgrÃ© Nous")

daff73

Thank you for your statistics and explanations. I think it is high time people started fighting back against the big bullies. I live in the U.S., but am Canadian and I have travelled extensively all over Europe. I have seen and heard many things over in Europe about the wars and how devastating they were on the Germans, English, French, Italians, Austrians, Dutch, etc... It's funny how all we tend to hear about here is how the Americans saved World War II and how they are the "only" ones doing anything about aggressors today. However, if you speak to Americans who have travelled outside the country to some of the countries in Europe, they are not so quick to speak anymore. I think the realization of what the world really thinks starts to set in. And the fact that it's not really all about the U.S. over there. We all have a right to our opinion and patriotism, however, don't do it blindly and give credit to the wrong people. Yes, the French did suffer a great loss in both World Wars. More than any of us over here in North America could ever fathom. Thank you for arming yourself with real information rather than just opinion with no merits. I wish more people would think with their heads rather than their hearts.

NOLA guy

Thank you for posting the info. Most Americans do not know how much France sacrificed in WWI, and the realities of 1940-45 are poorly understood in the USA - to say the least.

America and France have a relationship much like rival siblings - sometimes we feud and sometimes we are blood brothers.

A Frenchman could argue there would be no USA if it weren't for the support of France in our revolution. Hence the statement "Lafayette, nous somme ici" (Lafayette, we are here) when US troops arrived in France during 1917.

Both sides demonized each other during WWI when, in reality, the whole war was a (10,000,000 deaths) mistake. France (and Britain) took the lesson that there are no demons, which is partly why they could not cope with Hitler 20 years later. Unfortunately, most of western Europe STILL thinks there are no demons in the world and cannot cope with the realities of Islamic extremism. IE is the demon of our time, and we are fighting it in the right place - someone else's country.

I have visited France many times, including Paris, and never had an unpleasant experience. I also live in New Orleans and have an association with the National WWII Museum (www.nationalww2museum.org). It is my honor and privilege to know veterans who parachuted into Normandy on the night of June 5, 1944 and who volunteer at the museum. French visitors to the museum without exception seek out the veterans and thank them for helping to liberate France.

C'est la vie......

bonesmcblack

"Those" Americans never think. Thinking is rapidly becoming a memory in America, a memory that no one thinks about any more.

Why think when you have all those televisions telling you what to think...?

Louis R

How about the number of actual troops killed in WWII?
France 213,000
USA 418,000

Of course the French lost more civilians in the World Wars - the wars were physically located in Europe! But the US lost twice as many actual SOLDIERS in WWII, sending troops halfway across the world to fight.

Besides, the numbers you cited about WWI (3 soldiers killed for every 100 soldiers in the US and 16/100 in France) point to France being in the conflict longer and perhaps a little less prepared for warfare. I don't think that really helps your point.

q_bertk57

As a response to Jim, above, A Frenchman could argue (no less convincingly) that America never would have existed if it weren't for France's help in the Revolutionary war.

As far as the military goes, I read an article by an American General (former commander of NATO) saying that France has the most capable army in Europe, and that they can "hang" with almost anybody.

Mr Hex Vision

Well said.

Having a look at the figures of wounded and Civilian deaths
is even more greater (From Wiki)

WWI
Civilian Deaths, Wounded Soldiers

France 500,000 4,266,000
USA 757 205,690

WWII
Civilian Deaths, Wounded Soldiers

France 267,000 562,000
USA 11,200 418,500

Edit.

Having a think about it the numbers of actual soliders killed or wounded in Europe would be less than the figures above simply due to the fact that the USA there also fighting the Japanese in the pafic ocean.

Shadow Lark

bravo! i'm glad you got this out here. i've actually been one of those people who make fun of the French. and my mom's side all came from France, so my blood is part French. thanks again!
peace

glenjulio

Is it a contest? Even one dead is too much! We both (Americans and French) suffered during wars. Can you see any difference between an American dead and a French dead? Both are human, aren't they?

Crybaby Bob

Maybe the French should remember where they wold have been if the US hadn't engaged at all. Verstehen

The French Army actually went to war in 1914 wearing the famous red trousers, the cavalry wearing steel breastplates, helmets and sabers little changed since the Napoleonic wars, convinced that elan would carry them through the German fortifications. They were mowed down like wheat.

The U.S. suffered about 300,000 battle deaths during WWII (European and Pacific Theaters combined). France suffered about 200,000 battle deaths. Many of the U.S. battle deaths occurred during the liberation of France. Some occurred at the hands of the French military during our invasion of North Africa. After surrendering to the Germans, the French became notorious Nazi collaborators.

The 33. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne (franzÃ¶sische Nr. 1) and Charlemagne Regiment are collective names used for units of French volunteers in the Wehrmacht and later Waffen-SS during the World War II.

bier25

funny round about way to do math - amazing how people can twist anything to try and squeeze out a sympathy plea - who knows what exactly your point is but all that i got is that maybe you need to do a little more training to prevent such a high percent of casualties....regardless of the the fact that you are referencing stats from well before you were born, that pertain little to today's circumstances...so before you continue on your useless soap box, perhaps look at today's circumstances and apply those....

fredthedog52

Your numbers just point out that they are NOT very good at fighting, they keep getting killed.

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