What is a good income in France?

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ChocoBN

The figures given in the two answers before me seem about right. I would say that for a single person, 40,000 € for an office job would be considered a very decent salary (depending on qualifications of course) but they wouldn't be considered rich either. It would be a monthly net of 2,316. Minimum wage per hour is 8.71 € gross and 6.84 € net. That's 1,321 €/month (net 1,038 €) for a 35-hour workweek. Earning twice the minimum wage is considered an average income, 3 times the minimum wage is a very good income.

In 2006, the average gross salary was 31,000 € and the 2005 average net was nearly 23,000 €. Here is the breakdown by professional category:
http://www.journaldunet.com/management/repere/salaires_france.shtml Note that salary and income are two different notions and the average income is higher than the average salary.

When it comes to taxes, even though it is true that the French pay a lot of direct and indirect taxes, the burden is not on employees. It is employers and the self-employed who are over-taxed. French and American middle/upper-middle-class employees pay exactly the same in taxes = one quarter to one third of their income in payroll and income taxes. If you consider all forms of income (not just salary) and all direct and indirect taxes, Americans are a little less taxed but the French have a disposable income after taxes that is only 3% less than Americans (OECD data). Not a bad deal considering all they get return.

Here is how French employees are taxed:

1) for most people, payroll taxes for social security (retirement, health, etc) represent 22-23% of their gross. For managers it's closer to 25%. Minimum wage employees pay 21.46% and some categories of workers pay 4 to 8% only. The result after payroll tax is your taxable income.

2) then they pay personal income tax on 90% of that taxable income. The taxation rate is progressive like in America (I don't know about Canada) and the figures given by Rillifane show the different tax rates for each portion of your taxable income. According to this tax rate schedule, someone declaring a taxable income of 20,000 (based on a gross of approx. 26,000) would actually be taxed on 18,000 at an average rate of 6.91% (0% on the 1st portion of their income, 5.5% on the middle portion and 14% on the last portion). In the US, that person would pay twice as much in federal tax alone at an average rate of 13%. That same person would also have to pay another 3% in California and 5% in Utah or Massachusetts.

Here is the income tax (and the average tax rate) a single person would pay in France if their gross was:
- 20,000* = = = 575 € (4.15%)
- 25,000* = = = 1,148 € (6.63%)
- 30,000* = = = 1,634 € (7.86%)
- 35,000* = = = 2,119 € (8.74%)
- 80,000** = = = 10,892 € (20.17%)
[* before a 23% social security tax / ** before a 25% social security tax]

A single person with a gross of 40,000 (non manager) will declare a taxable income of 30,800 (40,000 - 23% social security). They will pay income tax on 27,720 (30,800 - 10%). Their income tax will amount to 3,008 € at an average rate of 10.85%. So that person's disposable net income will be 27,792 €. That's a - 30.5% gross/net difference.

If that person had one child, their income tax would be 1,965 € and the gross/net difference would be - 27.9%.

A married couple with 2 children and a gross of 60,000 would have a net of 44,210, that's a - 26.3% gross/net difference.

Those are maximum rates because I didn't include any deductions that they could claim for day care costs, retirement savings, remodeling work in their homes, etc. In real life, 3/4 of French employees bring home at least 75% of their gross.

Average disposable income compared to gross income in France is 73.2% for a single person and 85.4% for a married couple with 2 children.
In the US: 75.7% and 88.5%
In Canada: 75.6% and 85.7%

EDIT: Just removed the last part of my diatribe as it is not relevant to the original question and will continue the conversation with Rillifane by e-mail.

lostandconfused

Minimum wage in France is also around 8.50 euros per hour. Average income is 25 to 30 thousand per year. Over 50 thousand is a good income. Paris is way more expensive than the rest of the country, so incomes are a little higher there.

Jerry 71

It's hard to give you an actual dollar amount because the idea of a "good income" isn't well defined. But, if you wanted to live a North American lifestyle in France, it's much more expensive. Everything in France is more expensive (sometimes much more expensive) than in the US/Canada. Except for foie gras and some French cheeses. I always get the impression that the average French family spends a lot of money on the cost of living and really cannot save at all. The medical insurance is not free-- French citizens must pay for their insurance (most opt for the insurance sold by the govt) and must provide proof of insurance when renewing their identity cards (these id cards, not driver's licenses, are used for i.d.). They also have to pay co-payments and deductibles. Very few Americans or Canadians want to move to France. But many ppl from the third world look to France as a place for a better life. I am not putting France down; there are good ppl everywhere. But it really is an expensive place to live.

AndreasD72

If you receive in France a salary of over 120,000.00 Euro per year, than you may call it a good income. France is a nice country with high prices and high taxes.

Rillifane

The minimum wage is €8.71 per hour and the work week is set by law at 35 hours.

Pretax salary examples would be €36,000 for a software engineer, €66,000 for a General Practice Physician, €32,000 for a Mechanical engineer and €43,500 for an IT manager.

One should note that the French are some of the most heavily taxed people in the industrialized world.

Earnings below €5,657 pay no income tax. Between that level and €11,344 the rate is 5.5%. From €11,345 to €25,195 the rate is 14%. From €25,196 to €67,546 the rate is 30%. The highest marginal tax rate is 40% and applies to income in excess of €67,546.

The VAT is 19.6% and there are a host of other taxes and government mandated fees of various kinds.

As a general observation, wages in France are lower and taxes higher than in the United States.

The disparity between high and low wage earners in France is smaller than in the USA both pre and post tax.

INSEE, the French National institute for economic and social studies, has a chart showing net monthly incomes by profession here: http://www.insee.fr/fr/themes/tableau.asp?reg_id=0&ref_id=NATSEF04119

NB: I have no idea what you mean by saying that statistical data is "not really indicative of what people actually earn." I cannot imagine where you get such a notion unless you haven't the slightest idea of what statistical data is.

EDIT:Then maybe you should have taken the time to write a question that was clear and precise. The information on the income of a doctor IS a statistic since it represents the average income of doctors as a group (a statistical concept).

Statistics either represent factual reality or they do not and if they do not they are called "lies".

EDIT@ChocoBN. We really must get together for that bottle of wine (maybe several).

It seems that there are two valuable benefits that the French receive for their higher taxes, health care insurance and a free education for their children. Both are very valuable.

On the other hand, its not just the extra money they pay in taxes that has to be counted but the fact that higher taxes on employers reduces the wages of French workers and also has meant there are more unemployed and higher prices for many goods.

Further, it has to be noted that the health insurance program and the provision of free education is achieved, in large part, because the wages of French medical providers and French professors are considerably lower than their American counterparts.

A general practice physician in France makes about €66,000 or or about $83,400 while his American counter part earns about $192,000.

Its also true that medical procedures in France are a bit behind the curve compared to the USA and that the facilities in Universities are quite limited by American standards. (these are not neccessarily bad things but they are a part of the cost that must be supported).

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