Lisbon Treaty...?

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RAW

99% of people admit they haven't read it - for those that have it is nearly unintelligible - I will be voting no, as I have a deep suspicion of anything that seems to be made deliberately hard for the people voting on it to understand - I have a funny feeling that if it is passed we will discover that a lot of interpetation is put on it that we wouldn't have guessed - if you are voting yes, ask yourself what it is you are voting yes for, do you understand it?

Northern Spriggan

Centrally controlled European socialism with a permanent president is a bad idea

Dont vote for it if you want Ireland to be a country and not an EU county

jo h

well i for 1 am voting no irelands commissioner has admitted he hasnt read it as has our taoiseach why should we vote for something that they and we know almost nothing about

i know

Im voting no. Why?
1 -The EU council told all countries NOT to hold a referendum. They were not happy with Ireland, but because of the strength of our courts, we HAD to have one.
2- Not holding a referendum undermines the rights of people in other countries to have their say.
3- Although the government claims that Irish neutrality will not be affected, we CAN be forced to spend money building up our army.
4- Ask the farmers.
5 -The EU council have won't allow any institution to publish a proper document fully explaining the whole treaty. They say they will publish one when the treaty is voted in. They want us to bring in a treaty, and THEN they will explain it! That's like signing s job contract without reading it!
6 -Co orperate taxation will be raised to EU levels. This is tax on foreign companies. In Ireland it is low, and this is why we are doing well economically. If the treaty comes in, we will be forced to raise it, and foreign companies will leave. There WILL be job losses!
7 - Every 10 years, for a period of 5 years, Ireland will have NO representaion at the EU commission.
8- This treaty is not properly explained. Don't vote for change if you don't know what the change is. VOTE NO!

edit -
puzzledirishgirl - this is not a secondary school popularity contest! We cant vote yes just so the EU will like us. Everyone needs to think for themselves!

We will have to increase our military spending (we dont nned to our army is sufficiently funded already). Thats one of the reasons im voting no.

brasiedub

I'm a "new" Irish citizen, and unfortunately I think I missed the deadline for registration, so I won't be voting. So, it's with great realief I see that most of us are going to vote for the NO.

Jeremy M

Vote NO

I agree with everything "i know" says we were not given a chance to vote on it, they had to leave us vote on it because our constitution protected us..

=> The Lisbon Treaty is a violation of our constitution and this referendum ( which is trying to be passed off as just a yes/no vote adopting the Lisbon Treaty, it's not, it's a vote to change our constitution to allow it be passed )

=> Corporate taxation will be raised to a standard EU level and we can't afford this as we have a mush higher cost (wages, insurance, distribution costs, because we are an Island Nation. We won't be able to attract any new multinationals and the ones we have will leave.

This is the most important referendum this state has hade since it’s foundation.

I just hope that this bit of a poll represents the general population.

I beg everybody to VOTE NO!

Allison B

Vote no. It means a chance for Bertie ahem (a lieng steeling coward) to get a higher position Which means even president of EU. What if we have a war young men from Ireland have to go and get killed. We have to go by the rules of every one else. Vote no.

boofuswoolie

It's a gravy-train contrived subversion of the Sovereignty
so dearly bought with the blood and fortitude of a manacled people....VOTE NO

Orla C

Ireland is already an EU country, Wicker Man, didn't the advent of the Euro give you a hint?

I don't get why it's such an issue, to be honest. I don't think any other country is bothering to have a referendum about it.

»¤●°кιωι gяáçα»¤●°™

I still don't understand it.

= )

nuajav

These are the main points of the Treaty in brief.
1. Top jobs

A politician will be chosen to be president of the European Council for two and a half years, replacing the current system where presidency is rotated between member states every six months. Another post to be created will be the EU High Representative for Foreign and Security Policy, combining the current roles of EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana and external affairs commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner.

2. Charter of Fundamental Rights

The Lisbon Treaty makes the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights a legally-binding document. The charter lists the human rights recognized by the European Union.

3. Citizens’ initiative

Under the Lisbon Treaty, the commission is obliged to consider any proposal signed by at least one million citizens from a number of member states.

4. National parliaments to get ‘yellow card’ facility

All proposals for EU legislation will have to be sent to national parliaments, who will then have eight weeks to offer a ‘reasoned opinion’ on whether they believe the proposal respects the principle of subsidiarity (this is the principle by which decisions should as far as possible be made at local or national level). If enough national parliaments object to a proposal, the commission can decide to maintain, amend or withdraw it.

5. Smaller commission

The European Commission is the EU’s executive arm; it puts forward legislation and ensures that EU policies

are correctly implemented. Since 2004, it has been made up of 27 commissioners, one from each member state. Under the new treaty, the commission will be reduced to 18 members from 2014, with membership rotating every five years. This means that only two-thirds of member states will have their own commissioner at any one time, and each country will lose its commissioner for five years at a time.

6. European Parliament to get greater powers but reduced numbers

Currently, the European Parliament has joint lawmaking power with the Council of Ministers over about 75% of legislative areas. If the Lisbon Treaty enters into force, co-decision will be extended to virtually all areas of EU policy.

The European Parliament comprises 785 MEPs from across the union; under the treaty, this will be permanently reduced to 751. The number of Irish MEPs will drop from 13 to 12.

7. New areas of EU competence

The Lisbon Treaty will set out those areas over which the EU has exclusive competence, shared competence with member states, or supporting competence. The treaty gives the EU no new areas of exclusive competence; however, it establishes joint competence in the areas of space and energy. It also gives the EU the role of supporting competence in several new fields including health, education, tourism, energy and sport.

8. Redistribution of voting weights between member states

Within those areas to be decided by qualified majority voting, the current rules require the support of a little over 72% of member states for a law to be passed. Under the new system due to come into effect from 2014, a vote can be passed if it is backed by 55% of member states, and secondly, if these countries represent 65% of the EU’s population. It can also be passed if less than four countries oppose it. The changes mean

that it will be easier to pass legislation, and more difficult to block it. Countries with smaller populations will have less chance of blocking legislation.

9. Shift from unanimity to majority voting

The Lisbon Treaty will see an increase in the number of policy areas to be decided by a majority vote at the council, rather than by unanimity. Qualified majority voting will become the norm; however, there are some notable exceptions that will still require unanimous decisions, including taxation and defence.

One area where the unanimity veto will give way to qualified majority voting is Justice and Home Affairs, covering issues such as asylum, immigration, criminal law, border controls and police cooperation. Ireland has the power to opt out of this area on a case-by-case basis.

10. Changes to common security and defence policy

The Lisbon Treaty provides for the progressive framing of a common defence policy for the European Union, which will nonetheless respect the neutrality of member states like Ireland. It also allows the European Council to change decision making from unanimity to majority voting in a number of areas, excluding military and defence. However such changes will themselves require unanimous decisions.

The treaty extends the range of peacekeeping and humanitarian missions for which the union may draw on member states to include disarmament operations, military advice and assistance and post-conflict stabilization.

Is máith liom cáca millís!

Vote NO!!

Let's see, we (Ireland) fought for ages to get independance (over 700 years to be correct!). Now why would we just give it all to Europe because some planks (aka. Finé Fáil and Finé Gail sp?) tell you to vote yes!

deburca98

In my opinion Yahoo answers is being secretly used by FF cronies to gain opinions and report back to the mothership.

Or maybe, i am just being paronoid.

Flying mop dog

Just look at the posters. The yes posters are your average boring political posters. The no posters are despicable pieces of propaganda 'People died for your freedom are you going to just through it away?' Well if yu are so insecure in your position then yes maybe I will.

Look at the parties supporting the yes side FF, FG, LAB
Look at the partied supporting the no side SF, some Greens

Onto the actual arguments.

1: Ireland will have less of a voice in the EU: Umm QMV gives small nations a greater voice per head of population than a smaller nation would.
2: It takes things out of the hands of Irish citizens: If 1m citizens from a member state object any treaty can be rought back to the table.
3: We're going to have to supply soldiers to a European army: That's odd it says under the section on enhanced co-operation, and I quote, 'they do not apply to security and defence issues'

Other points:
1: At the moment there is no procedure for withdrawal from the EU: The Lisbon Treaty gives one
2: The EU will not be allowed to interfere in industry, education, health or tourism and the only area that the EU will have full control is in regulating the European market.
3: Ireland is allowed to opt in or out of issues involving asylum, immigration, border controls etc.

RAW I read the entire document with little difficulty. I know what I am voting for but the no arguments I have encountered are fictitious.

Puzzledirishgirl

Way I look at it is we can't turn our backs on Europe.... Answer this question, would we be where we are now without Europe's money? Not a hope in hell. So we need to keep with them. In fairness we are the only country getting to vote.... And if all the main parties are saying vote Yes, that says enough.

submissivmsle36

hi you
in my view there is a lot bulls**t about from the no camp the whole is thing is just resize the European Parliament itself to make it smaller in fact

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